Tom Byron Interview
- Tom Byron's Movies
Tom Bryon Interview #2 and
Tom Bryon The Retirement Interview (#3)
We have a lot to cover,
but let's get the boring porn interview questions out of the way first. Where
were you born?
Did you grow up in Texas?
What were you like growing up?
I was kind of quiet and normal. I get into my own head a lot.
How did you get started in this business?
I knew from an early age that I wanted to do this. As soon as I
discovered pornography I knew that it was for me. I was born in 1961 so right
about the time my hormones started raging, it was the Golden Age of Porn. I
used to go into theaters and watch John Leslie and Jamie Gillis and think that
it was a great way to make a living. I
got into the whole history of the business, who the directors were, who the
main actors were. I'd sit in the middle of the theater, just fascinated by the
whole process and I knew that one way or another, one day, I'd be doing that.
Did you come out to California to do movies?
Yeah, expressly for that purpose. I kind of bull shitted my parents that I
was coming out to be an actor. I was raised in community theater and come from
a very theatrical family. I told them I was coming to California to be a movie
star, but I knew what kind of a movie star I wanted to be.
I assume they know now?
Oh yeah. I always try to be up front with my parents. I was out here for a
year and a half or so before I found the avenue to get into the. Before I did
my first movie, "Up & Cumming"with Marilyn Chambers, I called my
mom. She was concerned about my legit career, so I just told her
that I had come out here to do this. She said, if you're going to do
it, do it like you do everything else, to the best of your ability.
So your first movie was "Up & Cumming?"
That was my first feature. The first video I did was "Anything
you watch it now, it's hilarious. My head looks like a fucking eggplant.
Who was that first scene with?
Some coke whore, a friend of Bobby Hollander's.
Were you nervous?
Yeah, I was nervous. Not because I was about to have sex, but because I
wanted to do it well. I was kind of like Dirk Diggler, all enthusiastic. I
was playing an exercise bicycle repairman or something. I was worried
about remembering my lines and shit. I didn't have a long sexual history before
I got into the business, so I really learned how to fuck in front of the
camera. The first few months in the business were a learning experience. I
never failed to pull through a scene, but it was touch and go a few times. I
was letting my mind fuck with my dick.
How long did that last?
The breakthrough, when I
really knew I could do this came on the set
of "All American Girls in Heat." We were on a boat all day, I
had gotten seasick, the call time was five AM. We didn't do the scene until
five the next morning. I was tired. The girl I was working with was good
looking, so I just told myself, I don't even care if I get a hard on, I'm just
going to go in there and have a good time. It was the best scene I had done so
far. Once I figured that out, everything fell into place. The other stuff,
cheating for the camera and all, that just comes naturally with time.
So you didn't really have any doubt that this was what you wanted to do.
No, I knew, once I did it, I was going to keep doing it. As long as I
could get people to use me.
What year did you get into
1982. May of 82.
So this month is eighteen years. You know what that means?
I know, some girl is going to come to do a scene who was born after I did my
You were right there in the middle of the Traci Lords controversy. There
were stories that you guys had a relationship. Is that true?
A relationship? We kind of hung out a little bit. I was a young goofy
kid. It turns out she was a young goofy kid too. I didn't have any
indication that she was under age. There were a couple of things that she might
have said along the way that with the benefit of hindsight, look a little
When we first started hanging out, she said "some of my friends call me
Nora. That's just a nickname. Don't make a big thing out of it." I didn't
make a big thing out of it, but looking back it makes sense. That was her
real name. On her supposed twenty third birthday, I had given her twenty two
white roses and one red rose, but not only was it not her real birthday, it
wasn't even close to her real age.
In one of the first porn mags I ever read, there was a story that the two of
you were engaged.
Jesus, I was more or less in puppy love with her. Infatuated because she was
gorgeous and it was weird that someone that gorgeous was also attracted to me.
That was very new to me at the time. It was more puppy love than anything.
Do you think there were people in the industry who knew she was underage and
helped her hide it?
The guy who brought her in, Bob or something. He was some guy who pulled his
hair over his bald spot and had really crappy teeth. He probably had a clue.
There was a guy she was living with, a guy named Tommy, some young surfer kid.
There was a point, when we were doing "Sister Dearest" when she said
"I have to get away from this guy. He's spending all my money and he
treats me like shit." I told her to just get away from him, live with me
for a while or whatever. She just kept saying "I can't, he knows to much
about me." I just blew it off, she had a place to go if she wanted it.
Again, with the benefit of hindsight, what she was alluding to was that he knew
her real age and could have turned her in.
Have you spoken to her since?
No. The day that the story broke, it was all over the news. I had a message
on my answering machine. "Hi Tommy, this is Christie, call me." I
called her back, but she wasn't home. I
haven't spoken to her since.
Do you have any insight as to why she did what she did, or why she has
turned on the industry?
I don't know. We always used to make fun of the naive young girls. She
always seemed to have her shit together. I admired her intelligence and her
ambition. She always said that she was going to working for Paramount and none
of this is going to matter. She probably knew from day one that eventually the
worm was going to turn.
Two other women you worked with early in your career, Ginger Lynn and
Marilyn Chambers have recently made comebacks. What do you think about that?
With Marylyn I don't know. She's a little bit past her prime. I applaud her
for having the courage to do it. For me it's like the reason I don't like to go
to funerals. I would kind of like to remember people the way they were rather
than in a box. That's probably nasty to say, but it's how I feel. Ginger still
looks good and she enjoys what she does. More power to her.
What was it like working with these women?
When I worked with Marilyn, it was my very first movie so I really hadn't
figured out what to do with my dick yet. I don't really have a great memory of
working with her because I didn't know what I was doing. We had a couple of
scenes a few years later that were fun. With Ginger I actually did her very
first scene. It was a Golden Girls loop. She was this perfect little sex bomb.
Girls back then didn't allow themselves to be that nasty sexually. More than
just being pretty and having a great body, she allowed herself to go father
than anyone else who looked like that.
She was almost too pretty to be doing that.
Exactly. That stuff was more for the street whore types. She was the first
box cover quality girl who would do that sort of stuff.
The DP scene from 'New Wave Hookers' was classic.
We shot that thing in like an hour. It just flowed. Personally, it's not one
of my favorite scenes though. I have never liked doing scenes with another guy
in it. If you notice in the last three or four years, I haven't been in any
scenes with any other guys. All you do is spend your time
avoiding the other guy. A girl can't give the best head if she's being
pounding from behind. You don't see a lot of that in the movies that do. I like
one on one or two girls on one guy.
Do you have any idea how many movies you've been in, even a ball park
Close to two thousand, but I don't have any idea exactly how many.
You're right up there at the top of the list, the all time porn King.
Out of all of those, could pick out a few favorites?
There were a few that sort of put me on the map. "Private Teacher"
that I did in 1984. That was my first big roll where the story centered around
me. "Kinky Business" was another. Those are movies that came out when
I was coming up and helped establish me, the "Taboo American Style"
movies as well. Lately, I liked "LA 399" it was a nice little part, a
good script. When I have the most fun is when I just fuck. That's why I make
the kind of movies that I make. The setting up of actors and set and all
doesn't really appeal to me. I'm constantly trying to improve on what I'm
doing. I may change at some point down the road and do a movie with a script,
but now it just doesn't appeal to me. What appeals to me know is learning all
of the facets of the industry that I haven't been exposed to.
Was there ever anyone in the last eighteen years who you really wanted to
do a scene with, but somehow slipped through your fingers?
(Tom catches Rog nodding.)
See? You know what I'm talking about. Cynthia Brooks man. Marie Sharp who
was in the original "Café Flesh." There are probably a few others
here and there, but most of them have come my way. And now, I can just call
them up and put them in a movie. Oh, I know one, Nikki Andersson. I want to
fuck her and Silvia Saint too.
Do you get fan mail from women?
Ever hook up with any of them?
Ever get fan mail from any good looking women?
No. I don't have a fan club or anything. People send some things to a mail
box that I check about twice a year. By the time I check the mail, it's two or
three months old.
Are there any directors who you worked for you really impressed you?
John Leslie was good. I really admire his sense of organization and
creativity. Brad Armstrong also impressed me. We were doing a movie with Jenna
and he wasn't happy with this dialog scene. A lot of people would just do one
or two takes and Move on. Brad sat down with us and communicated what he
wanted. The scene turned out better than it would have been with any other
You've been active for eighteen straight years right?
There was that one year where I wanted to get into the music business, but
my heart wasn't really into it. I know I have talent for singing. I was in the
Texas All-State Choir for a year. I wasn't really happy with what was happening
in the industry at that time and I wanted something to fall back on. My heart
was never really into the music business though. This is what I do, it's what I
Do you think you'll ever pursue music again?
Sure, I'll go to a Karaoke and tear the place up. Rob plays the guitar and
Lazie was the bassist for Danzig so we sometimes get together and fuck around a
little bit. To actually consider a music career, probably not. Just like I
wouldn't really consider a legitimate acting career. I know I could do it, and
if Hollywood wants me, I'm not too hard to track down. But to play that whole
game, not interested.
I'd say you've got a pretty thing going as it is. Don't fix it if ain't
How did you hook up with Patrick Collins and Elegant Angel?
I had shot a couple of scenes and I knew I had the eye. I've been studying
other people's stuff for years. I looked at Stagliano's stuff, I looked at
Leslie's stuff and I knew I could do it. I was negotiating with Stagliano and a
couple of other people, Mike Rubinstein at Devil's Films, Chris Alexander at
Anabolic. If I was going to do it, I didn't want to go with a fly by night
company or someone who didn't understand the genre that I wanted to be in.
Stagliano had an offer on the table, but he was kind of dragging his feet about
it. I had worked for Patrick on a Bottom Dweller or something and he invited me
in to talk. A lot of my motivation for that was to force John's hand. Patrick
and I worked out a deal and we started doing it.
How did the Cumback Pussy series start? Was that the concept you had going
into the deal?
Not really. My first title that I had was Whack Attack. It's kind of like,
you watch it, you want to whack off, you have a Whack Attack. Pat had heard
this old blues song Comeback Pussy, and he liked it. I didn't care, I just
wanted to do my series. Who gives a fuck what it's called. That's where that
name came from.
Was "Cumback Pussy 1" the first entire movie you had directed?
Yes. I had directed a couple of scenes before. One time, on a Brat movie,
Paul Thomas had the flu and left early so I finished the rest of the day,
directing a sex scene and some dialog.
How was it different being behind the camera for a full movie?
I just kept things really simple. To this day, I keep things simple. I have
a still photographer who also holds the lights and that's my crew. It just
all came naturally.
You mentioned the Brat movies, you did a lot of those.
Yeah, I was Morty. I started with Jamie Summers, then Nikki Randall then it
was that Julianne James. She was a fucking pain in the ass.
Yeah, I did a couple with her and then told PT that I didn't want to do any
more. It was one thing when we had Jamie Summers, but now it was a coked out,
chubby, pain in the ass Julianne.
You did the same sort of role in the Tori Welles Vivid movies.
That's right, she was the fucking Brat too. She was fun, but I only did one
or two movies with her.
Would you say that Jamie Summers was the favorite of the Brat girls?
Oh yeah. She had one of those pussies you couldn't put it in. You would have
to beat yourself on the head to keep from cumming because it was like fucking
melted butter. I had the worst time working with her because I felt like I
couldn't move, but she was great.
While you were with Elegant Angel, you and Rob, and Van specifically, did
you guys hang out together or were you off doing your own things?
We kind of came together. The whole thing there is hard to get into. It was
a good learning experience and Pat really wasn't around that whole year. When
we did see him, all he did was bitch and moan. I'll tell you one thing about
Patrick Collins, he is the ultimate pimp. He's a guy that makes all the money and
takes all the credit for someone else's work. The guy started out as Tianna's
husband, her suitcase pimp, the guy holding her cum towel. Tianna worked for
Stagliano. Stagliano liked Tianna and was just starting up this company.
Patrick wedged himself in there as a salesman. He was selling Buttman, which at
that time was revolutionary. As a matter of fact, I worked on the very first
Buttman movie and I thought it was kind of weird. There is this guy behind the
camera who's a character? Once I watched it, I got it. This was something that
turned the industry on its ear and all the video stores needed it. Most of the
other stuff around at that time was dreck, it was just horrible, so every video
store across the country, and across the world, had to have Buttman. It wasn't
like Pat had to sell a fucking Mitchell Spinelli movie. It sold itself, but he
takes all the credit for that, for building the Evil Empire. Then John gives
him a series and a company, Elegant Angel and he rides the crest of the Evil
Empire, pushing that Sodomania crap. Then he takes that company that John had
given to him, gets an office right across from them and goes head to head by
creating confusion in the marketplace, keeping the name, Elegant Angel. To this
day, people still say 'You used to be with Evil Angel.' Then he got lucky with
me and Rob and Van and the people that were the creative hub of that business
in 1997. Whatever he says, 1997 is the biggest year he will ever have in his
whole fucking sorry career in this business. Then he used us as leverage with
distributors. He said to distributors, 'you're going to take THIS many pieces
of this crap and if you don't, I'm not going to let you have the Tom Byron
movie or the Rob Black movie that sells.' He has always bullied them. Back when
he was with Buttman, he would bully them. That's why when we broke off from
him, the distributors were all licking their chops. Now it was 'fuck you Pat.'
He doesn't have that leverage to play off of. It's another example of him using
other people's talents. To this day, he's still using what we did. He's
still using Cumback Pussy, still using Booty Duty, he just did Miscreants Too.
He's still trying to fool the consumers into thinking they are getting the same
thing as they got in 1997, which they are not. His business has suffered and it
will continue to suffer. He wants to talk about me being Rob's bitch, Patrick
Collins is my bitch. We are living rent free inside of his head. He has to look
around at the failure and all the business that he has lost and have a focal
point for that. The focal point is us. To this day, two and a half years later,
he still talks smack. If you read that article in AVN, three quarters of that
was about how we did him wrong. We put that mother fucker on the map. Bottom
line, he's in my business. I was here ten years before he wedged himself in and
I'll be here ten years after he's gone off to whatever his next failed venture
will be. So, fuck you Pat.
While you were still
there, Marc Wallice came out as HIV Positive?
Actually, that came out
right after we left.
But you were working with
him shortly before he came out.
He was working and I was
working. We weren't really working together.
Do you think he was
performing while he was positive?
He definitely performed
while he was positive because all of those girls also turned up positive.
Do you think he performed
when he knew he was positive?
I could say something, but
it would be pure speculation on my part. If in fact he did and he knew, then
those are demons that are going to haunt him the rest of his life. He doesn't
need me to add fuel to the fucking fire. Do I think he is a person that is
self-centered and capable of doing such a monstrous thing? Based on what I
knew, yeah, but I can't say for sure that he did.
Have you spoken with him
Nope. I prefer to
associate with people who are looking forward and aren't self-centered losers.
Did that scare you at all?
It saddened me and it was
really frustrating. We had just started a company when all that crap was going
on. Everyone was rushing to go all condoms. I know as a consumer, I don't like
to see performers using condoms because any guy watching porno wants to put
himself in the place of the guy fucking. I know that condoms just don't feel
good. As a company looking to make a name for ourselves, that we couldn't do
something like that. We took a lot of flack for that but at the same time I
wasn't sitting behind a desk mandating condoms or no condoms without putting
myself at risk. I perform in front of the camera too and I am convinced that
the transfer from female to male is small as to be insignificant. I am
comfortable enough with proper testing and the way we have sex, that the risk
factor is something I can live with.
At the CES show in January
of 1998, you, Rob, Van and Tiffany were all part of that Elegant Angel team
that swept all the AVN awards. Shortly after that, you guys bolted out the
door. What's your take on that situation?
I knew from the beginning
that I wouldn't be staying with Pat for a long time because there was no real
future in it. I never wanted someone else to have that much control over me.
Once I figured out that I could do this, I knew I would be breaking off on my
own. I even told him that. My goal was to branch out and do my own thing. I
also knew that I couldn't do just a couple of movies and then jump ship. I
would end up like a Mike South going from company to company every other month.
You don't know where to find the movies. I knew I had to put in at least a year
and maybe garner some awards to really establish myself as a player. Once I did
that, I knew what would come of it. With the people I was hanging out with at
the time, it just sort of fell into place. To tell you the truth, I didn't like
Rob when I first met him. He's kind of the opposite of my personality. He's
boisterous you know. The first time I met him, this was even before he had
hooked up with Elegant, we were in a hotel room, smoking dope he turned to me
and said "What are you going to do with your life man? Are you just going
to fuck forever?" I just thought, who the fuck is this guy. Then later, he
turned up at Elegant Angel and I couldn’t believe it. As the year went on and
we both started to trust each other and confide in each other. We compliment
each other well. Where as he has a short temper and sometimes flies off the
wall, I am the voice of reason and can talk to him. We fill in gaps for each
You've lasted two and a
half years and that seems like an eternity for a porn partnership.
It helps that we're best
friends. I don't agree with everything he says, but bottom line, he is a person
that I trust and can confide in and vice versa. We're best friends. I know when
to give him his space and likewise.
There have been a number
of contract girls at Extreme throughout the years, why do you think there have
been so many?
The whole idea of having
contract girls in the first place has been weird for us. With the whole HIV
scare going on, it was hard to find girls who would work without condoms. That
was one motivation. Also, we were a new company and we had to decide what to
do. You look at Vivid and they have a whole bunch of contract girls, so that
could have elevated the status of our company. Did it work? Who knows? It was
for convenience to give us a talent poll to work with who would go with the
One of the first ones to
go was Stryc9, now Cherry Mirage. Was she fired or did she quit?
That was kind of weird.
She is a very pretty girl and obviously one of your favorites, but she is a bit
of a spoiled brat. I don't know if you noticed, but in her scenes, she was not
all that into it when it came to the sex. She was just there to be cutesy-pretty.
When it came down to being real and ferocious and extreme, she didn't really
fit the bill but she looked great on a box. It was just one of those silly
little things that gets all blown out and feelings get hurt. Basically, she
wanted to get paid for scenes she hadn't done because it was the twenty-first
of the month and she was guaranteed a certain number of scenes. In hindsight,
that that was a bad way to go when it comes to a contract. After a while, every
movie that comes out has the same people in it. She didn't like to have scenes
canceled because she had to prepare, but we were still a new company. There
were three people doing ten jobs each. Being the spoiled brat that she is, she
just couldn't understand that. I think if she looks back on her time with us,
based on what her career is at this point, I don't think that she can honestly
say that it was a terrible time. Let's be real, it put her on the fucking map.
What's she going to do working for Bobby Rinaldi?
What about Alana Evans and
Those contracts became
impractical at the time. We had distributors complain that every single movie
had the same girls in them. We had done all we could with them and we parted
ways. There were no hard feelings. Rob kind of ran his mouth about her not getting
a tit job, but the bottom line was the we needed to restructure our contracts.
More recently, Ashlyn Gere
That was just a mess. Let
me just say right off the bat that we are here to be in business. We're not out
to win a popularity contest. We do things that make sense from a business
standpoint. If they don't make sense, we change them. We thought that the
Ashlyn Gere thing would be a huge coup for a new company. We thought that the
Ashlyn Gere comeback would sell thousands more pieces and would be this huge
thing and she could elevate the status of the company. It just didn't work. For
what we were paying her, which was substantial, the return was minimal. People
just went 'Ashlyn Gere? She's old, so what?' She wasn't really the intense sort
of sexual deviant that we like. Look at Jessica Darlin, she's pretty, young and
she's filthy. She genuinely loves what she does. Ashlyn is more the old school,
let me do as little as possible and be a Princess. Still, the biggest thing
with Ashlyn is that she came with her husband, Layne Parker. He is a hack
director, a horrible editor and a general piece of shit. We had to re-edit
"LA 399" three times because he didn't understand a simple concept.
There would be music in the background with a voice over. When the voice over
started, he would cut the music so it was silent. He couldn't cut it as an
editor and we were paying him a lot of money. We did not want to spend that much money making shitty half-ass
movies. Nobody likes to give up the ship, but we tried. We didn't trust him to
direct a whole movie anymore, so we kept him on as a shooter and editor. He
didn't live up to his end of the deal which was to make a competent movie. They
didn't agree with that and Ashlyn sided with her man. The way the whole split
came about was that she didn't show up for CES. Everyone knew that CES was
going on during that time. She knew that she had to sign autographs. She knew
the times, but no one specifically called her the day before. Ashlyn expected
to be treated like a queen. She had this illusion that she was better than all
the other girls, that she was Ashlyn Gere, award winning actress. She
was supposed to be part of the team. I think she had a big problem working for
a former actor and a twenty six year old kid. Never mind that he's an extremely
intelligent twenty-six year old kid who was raised in the industry and has a
lot of business sense. I don't know what they expected from us, but it didn't
work out. No hard feelings, more power to her, but that's not the way we work
here. Everyone who works for Extreme works with us, we're a team, a family.
Jessica Darlin is the nicest person because she realizes that the company isn't
all about her. It's about making money and making good movies. Her husband
makes good movies.
He has a passion for it and he doesn't think he's the
greatest thing in the world like Layne Parker does. Layne had this
condescending attitude, but Luis Cyper isn't like that. I can give him hints
and tips and we all work together to make a better movie. His last movie,
"Last Breath" got a 5 Star from Adam Film World and they don't just
throw those things around.
What about Jon Dough and
Jon Dough has a drug
problem with speed. He had just gotten out of jail on drug related charges and
his Vivid contract was over. He came to
see us for work and it was Rob's idea to make him a contract guy. Rob's all
about how can we angle it to make it a big thing. This ex-Vivid guy now with
Extreme. Rob knows how to play that sort of thing. I was reluctant and
suggested we have him work for us a few times to see how he did. Rob was
insistent, so we signed him up. The second week after we signed the contract,
the man disappears for four days. No one could get in touch with him. He comes
into the office the next week, drawn out, eyes dancing around. He said it
wouldn't happen again. I told Rob that we weren't helping Jon, but he doesn't
like to give up. After the second
time, third time, fourth time it got old. There was one scene we had to rebook
three times because he couldn't get his cock hard. A week after his last binge,
he came storming in. We were busy and couldn't talk to him at that moment. He
was in the lobby and got all pissed off. He came in the next day and said
"I want out of my contract." I said "Fine." Then he says
"And I want all the money I'm supposed to make this month. According to my
contract, I'm guaranteed this amount." I just said "Jon, you negated
that contract the first time you decided to bang speed. You can wipe your ass
with this contract." He didn't like to hear that and stood up, threatened
to bash a bottle over my head. Monique grabbed his arm and took him out. That's
the whole Jon Dough story. Bottom line, I hope he's doing better. There is a
nice guy under that tortured exterior, the guy that I knew when he first got
into the business. I think a big problem with him is Monique. As she mentioned
in her interview, I've partied with her. She is fun to do fucking drugs with
and I think that's a big problem for Jon. She'll put her head up your ass, you
can fucking piss all over her, whatever. I think that's a big problem for Jon.
He has a partner in misery. I hear that they're both clean now. I hope they
stay that way and wish them both the best.
What about Jasmin St.
I like Jasmin. I admire
her ambition and energy, but she has a real self esteem problem. The way she
compensates for that is to lash out and cut other people down. It's a need to
elevate herself at the expense of others. She has a lot of issues she needs to
deal with. It didn't make sense to keep someone on board who was constantly
rocking the boat. She would cause problems with this person and that person it never
ended. We parted ways and now she's back doing gang bangs for Metro. It's sad
in a way, but I like Jasmin. I hope that some day she works out these issues.
To tell you the truth, I see a lot of Savannah in Jasmin. Not in the drugs
because I don't think Jasmin abuses drugs, but in the way she compensates for
her low self esteem by lashing out at other people.
What ever happened with
the Victoria Paris comeback?
I don’t really know, I
think she got spooked by the whole HIV thing. When Rob was talking to her, it
was during that whole mess, but I never talked to her so I can't say for sure.
And the last big split to
talk about was with Van Damage and Tiffany Mynx.
I think they were in over
their heads from the beginning. Neither of them had a sense of what it took to
help maintain a company. That means being responsible, having your movies done
on time, things like that. They thought it would just be a free ride.
Ultimately, it was going to be me and Rob. Van was my cameraman and I was
comfortable with him. We were both kind of pissed off at Pat so it would fuck
him more. Rob was hedging a bit, but he agreed. Van was going out with Tiffany
so she came along with that package. We should have had a clue what was going
to happen when we saw what she did to Patrick. The day she quit, she went out
and charged twenty thousand dollars worth of stuff on Patrick's credit card.
Van couldn't seem to get his movies done on time and with a new company if you
miss a release date, that's thousands of dollars that you are never going to
get back. You have to be
responsible enough to do your job if you're going to represent the company.
They went out to an open house back east for a major distributor. This guy
takes tons of product, so he's important. They went for this signing, flew all
the way to New York. There was no one meet them at the airport, so instead of
being responsible adults, Tiffany got all pissy. They got on a plane and came
back, basically telling this big distributor to go fuck himself. That's
something you don't do. It's childish and petty, but we forgave all that. It
came to a head when we went down to Brazil. Tiffany and Van were leery about
going to Brazil. They had some image that it was people in grass skirts and
they were going to be kidnapped and burned at the stake. Neither of them
wanted to go and they kept making excuses. We all had to go to represent the
company. The day before we left, we had to go down and get our visas. All of a
sudden Tiffany can't find her passport. It was bull shit, she didn't want to go
and had tried every other excuse in the book. This was her last desperate
attempt. At that point Rob and I just said fuck it, stay home. Even Van
tried to get out of at that point. We sent someone down to get his visa for
him. While we were gone, Tiffany was in charge of my house. She was supposed to
take care of the dogs, not have people over, just be a responsible adult. That
was obviously a huge mistake because our dogs got let out. She left the gate
open or something. That we could have lived with, but she had people staying at
the house while we were gone. There was a lot of drama in Brazil and Rob just
flipped. He called her up and said "You're fired, get out of the
house." We didn't want her in the house because we didn't trust her. We
told Van that he was welcome to stay. Rob and I decided that the only this
would work is if he and I were partners and did things equally. Rob was taking
on too much himself and we both needed to dig in to take control of our
company. We told Van that he could stay, but we had to get things done on time.
He needed time to think about it. We got back to LA and he took all of his
stuff out of the house and disappeared. The next thing I know, he's serving us
with a lawsuit. If they hadn't taken an adversarial position and let things
cool down, all would have been forgiven. Everything else had always been
smoothed over. They decided to get a lawyer and play tough. I think they would
have ended up back here in some capacity had they just handled it like grown ups.
They wanted to take an adversarial position and that's just not something you
do with us. We've survived having everyone in the business try to put us out of
business. Russ Hampshire tried to put us out of business, tried to steal
our name with VCA Extreme. Steve Hirsch did the same thing. Patrick tried to
bully distributors to shut us down. He called up this Canadian distributor and
said that if they took Extreme, they couldn't have Elegant Angel. They said
"I guess we won't take Elegant Angel." He doesn't have the leverage
that he once did because his movies are crap. If I tried, I wouldn't know how
to make a movie bad enough to get a two in AVN. He gets them all the time.
Cumback Pussy gets a three? It's ridiculous.
Are you trying to do
anything different with Whack Attack and Planet of the Gapes than you did with
I have experimented with
different things. I think my editing is more concise. The scenes don't run as
long as they used to, but it's basically the same format. You want to see a
girl looking great, see her presented in the right way in the montage. I have
strayed away sometimes. In Whack Attack 5, I put in a lot more behind the
scenes stuff, made it more of a travel log thing. I did that with
Cumback Pussy 10
when I went to the UK. In that respect, sometimes I vary from the formula,
but like you said, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I figure I'll get people
who really want to fuck each other and let them go at it.
If you had to pick one
movie that you've directed that you think is your very best work, what would it
I don't know, Whack Attack
2, Whack Attack 3, Whack Attack 7. I really like them all, it just sort of
depends on the cast.
Did you follow the Rough
Sex controversy at all?
A little bit on the
Did you see the movies?
I saw a little bit of
number two. It didn't really appeal to me because it was unmotivated violence.
I don't have a problem with depictions of violence on screen, but there needs
to be a reason for it. I've told Rob the same thing many times. He did this
movie called "Shooting Gallery"
which is close to Rough Sex, it's
slapping and spitting and choking, dunking girls' heads in toilets. There was
no reason for it. It was a series of vignettes with unmotivated violence. Then
he did "Week and a Half in the Life of a Prostitute"
which had the
same sort of degradation, but it was woven in with a story so it made sense. It
was a little more palatable. Unmotivated violence and degradation for the
entertainment of sick people has no appeal to me. Not to say that people
shouldn't do it, if that's you thing, fine. It's just not my bag.
You just started
Armageddon Entertainment. Tell me a little about that company.
It's basically a company
that gives distributors an option. Extreme is high end, high price product that
we sell to distributors at a base price. We actually held out on a big
distributor for a year because they wouldn't pay our minimum. We wanted to give
distributors an option so we created Armageddon. We sell it a slightly lower
price. It's still the same quality product, but it gives them more options. If
they only have a certain budget, they can buy their Evil Angel, Extreme and
Anabolic at a certain price, then they need to buy their Zane, Midnight and
other low end stuff. With that stuff, you get what you pay for. We wanted to
give them a low price option, but make it a better product. It's basically to
steal other people's share of that market.
I've read rumors that this
company may be the first step towards you and Rob splitting.
No, that's never going to
happen. We are partners, fifty-fifty, Extreme, XPW, Armageddon, all of it. We
both have equal say in what goes on. The only reason for creating a new company
like Armageddon is to give distributors and option and my name is on it because
my name moves product. Rob and I won't split because we understand each other.
I don't agree with everything he says, he doesn't agree with everything I say,
but we have a mutual respect and trust for each other. We're not trying to fuck
each other. Most of our time is spent together, we have the same office, we
live in the same house, and it works.
What's going on with
Extreme now? Contract Girls etc.?
We've got Kristi Myst and
Jessica Darlin as contract girls and Lizzie as a director and she's into the
wrestling end of things.
Any new directors to look
Luis Cypher is really
good. Lazie is doing some things. He just did a thing called "New
Blood" which is sort of an Ed Powers goes to Hell thing.
Amber Lynn recently made a
comeback with you guys, but she's not a contract girl right?
No. There was never a
contract. We talked about doing something, but she's another one who just
thinks that people should bow down to her because she's Amber Lynn. That just
didn't make sense. We're all fucking equal here.
She doesn't look that good
You said that. Rog said
it, she doesn't look that good any more. I'm not saying we'll never sign
another contract girl, but if we do it's got to be the right person. Just
because you sign on the dotted line, it doesn't give you the right to be a
cunt. If we never sign another contract girl, so what? Our numbers are getting
bigger all the time.
Do you have time to watch
other people's stuff?
Sometimes. Like I said, I
got a copy of Rough Sex 2, every once in a while I'll jet over to Evil Angel to
grab a couple of Rocco movies to see the new European girls. I saw "Double
Feature." It was an interesting little movie. I didn't laugh my ass off,
but it was a nicely put together little piece. I saw that thing from VCA,
"In Search of Awesome Pussy", I forget who did that one.
I know who directed, but
who the fuck wrote it?
Next topic. If you could
pick anyone in the world, actress, model anyone, and put them in a Whack Attack
movie, who would they be?
Anyone at all.
Britney Spears, Alyssa
Milano and that chick from Star Wars, fucking Natalie Portman. She is so
pretty. And Liz Hurley, she's fucking hot.
So that's the dream cast
for Whack Attack 10?
Yeah, that's the kind of
girls I like. The dark eyes, the young face, that whole thing.
Who do you think is the
best fuck of your career?
Jessica Darlin is one of
them, absolutely. She is easily my best fuck currently. Someone commented
recently that I used her again, but fuck that, I like fucking her.
Who was the worst?
Lee Carrol was horrible,
She was old, she was drunk
and she fucked like a board. I don't really like older women. I had to work
with Tantala a few times. She is a sweet lady, but just didn't do anything for
me. Forgive me Gloria, I love you, but Gloria Leonard in Taboo American Style
was not good. It was also a head trip because she's supposed to be my mom and
that didn't help. She wasn't a bad fuck, I just wasn't turned on to her.
There were some pictures
posted recently on the net of you and what appears to be a transsexual.
Oh, it was a transsexual,
So the pictures are real?
Yeah, I did a still shoot
in like 82 or 83. You have to remember, that time was still part of that sexual
revolution thing. It was hip to be bi and experiment. I have never been
attracted to men, I'm still not. I don't think men are attractive, but there was
something intriguing about a man who looked like a woman. It was purely
experimentation to see what it was like. I felt weird when I was doing it. It
was kind of a sick thrill, but I knew it wasn't my cup of tea, but I did it. So
what? I did it twenty years ago, it doesn't mean I'm gay. It was just something
I experimented with. I am from the old school way of thinking, if it feels
good, do it. I don't pass judgment on other people's sexuality and I don't
expect them to pass judgment on mine. I like my ass played with, because I
happen to be male, I happen to have a prostate gland and it happens to feel
good. I don't care what the guys in the pool hall fucking say. To me,
homophobia comes from people struggling with their own sexuality. I don't care
what other guys think, especially Ramsey.
Why do you think people
made such a big deal? Did you ever deny that the pictures existed?
No. First of all, this
whole thing happened at the time when Rob was shooting his mouth off about
Stagliano which I didn't agree with. I told Rob that it's one thing to go after
Vivid or Russ or Patrick because there is actually a good fight there and it's
part of doing business. You don't need to shoot at some guy who made a mistake.
He knows he made a mistake and he doesn't need to be blasted for it. It was a
cheap shot and I told Rob that. I told him that it might come back to bite him
on the ass and sure enough, it did. It shut him up though.
So you didn't deny it?
I like to play with
people's heads. How do you know that I didn't put the pictures up myself? When
the picture thing came up, Gene Ross approached me. I said "Gene, maybe
they are real, maybe they aren't. Maybe they're like the Oswald photos. Maybe
they're doctored." Gene presented it like I denied it. I never said that.
I said what if. What if I put them on the net myself? I'm not saying I did, I'm
just presenting the question.
Do you follow the internet
I like to read RAME and
the gossip sites. It's kind of a voyeuristic thrill. I love Ramsey. He is so
obsessed with everything that goes on with Extreme and Rob Black and Tom Byron.
I have always said that there is no such thing as bad publicity in porno. We
are the lowest rung of the entertainment ladder, so what kind of effect is
anything going to have on us? That guy has done more for us publicity wise than
any ad in AVN. He has sold us a lot of tapes so I want to say thank you and if
I'm ever in Holland, I'd love to buy you a beer. His opinion doesn't really
mean shit to me. I love how he calls me and Mark Davis losers. We're having sex
with beautiful women, he's sitting behind a computer six thousand miles away bitching. Who's the
Do you have a web site?
www.extremeassociates.com and www.xpwrestling.com and www.xpleasures.com We are looking to
Do you know who Thomas
What the fuck is his
I don't know. He's a
fucking wanna-be. He came in looking for a deal before he went to Stagliano. He
and Brian Surewood came in, broke out a couple of beers and talked. The guy has
a lot of energy and a good line of bullshit. Is he a great movie maker? I don't
know. I didn't see Anal Ball. From what
I hear and from what certain critics say, I didn't miss much. If a guy
like that can get his bull shit out there and get over, more power to him. Am I
worried about Thomas Zupko stealing our share of the market? No.
What about XPW, what's
going on with that?
We have been running shows
since July. It has really taken off. I think it's something that has been a
long time coming for the west coast. ECW, WCW and WWF are all east coast. There
is a hole in the market and we've had success. We sold out the Palace like
three times and we're doing shows in the LA Sports Arena now. We are kind of
touring the Southern California area. It's doing so well that ECW is suing us,
telling us we can't be Xtreme. We have one of the big boys of wrestling
concerned. Shane Douglass used us as leverage for his new contract with WCW.
When he was in between contracts, we were going to work something out. He's
back in WCW because of XPW.
Is wrestling something
you've followed for a long time?
Off and on throughout my
life. When I was a kid I watched the Masked Marvel and some of that. I got away
from it for a long time, then came back in the mid eighties. After I saw
"Rocky 3", I started watching the WWF with Hulk Hogan. I fell away again,
but recently I've been back. Rob is a huge wrestling fan so I started to watch
it again. Now I'm actually pretty well informed. I know what's going on in all
three federations. It's very similar to the porn industry. There is a carney
type of promotion. Porno is based on bullshit. It's people having sex. They may
be enjoying it, or maybe not. It's not the way thing happen in real life and
wrestling is the same way. Is it real or is it bullshit? Some parts are real,
some aren't and you accept the bullshit. In porno and in wrestling.
Are you going to wrestling
No man, I'm not in that
kind of shape.
Good, because I don't know
if I could deal with Tom Byron in tights.
I might do some ring work
or be a character down the line, but I like being front office on that thing.
I've got some names here
on a list, I'd like to run them by you and just get your general impressions.
Cute Girl. Great in the
sack and a nice person.
I never really enjoyed
having sex with her. She was never that attractive to me and always had a
problem with the nose candy. I don't like working with people who are strung
She was part of that whole
mid 80's fun era. I always thought she was dumb back that, but as I got to know
her, she's pretty intelligent. It's been fun watching her mature over the
I don't really know that
much about her. I know as much as you do. I had seen her before I got in the
business and it was a trip to work with her, but I don't know enough about her
to form an opinion.
I like Peter. He's a good
kid. He should come clean with his past. Not that it's anybody's business, but
it makes no sense to hide. By denying it, it gives people fuel to make it look
Pretty Girl. She wouldn't
have the career she has without the notoriety she got from us, so for her to
downgrade the industry isn't right. At the same time, I understand it because
the world is not ready to accept and unrepentant porn star, which is why Ginger
never made it. She never rolled over on us. The IRS came after her for the same
If Traci wanted to come
back and make a movie for you, would you accept her?
Probably, just because I
know I would make a lot of money off it.
There are those who would
say they wouldn't let her back because of what she did to the industry.
Then those people aren't
good business people.
I like Ron. He is Ronnie
man. Would I put him in a movie? Probably not, because I don't find it
appealing seeing him have sex, but how can you not love Ronnie.
I loved her, she was fun,
perfect body, great voice. Every time I worked with her was fucking magic.
I respect him a lot, not
only as a director but as a person. He is a guy you can genuinely look up to in
the business. Very talented guy.
Same thing, tons of
respect. I think sometimes his ego gets to be a little much. He thinks that
he's the only one who has the right to make pornography. To a certain extent,
he created a new genre, but there are other people who have picked it up and
taken it a step further. I like his movies, but at the same time I get a little
bored because he is so fixated on the ass. There are other parts of a woman.
His obsession is dead on but I think he needs more variety to his game plan.
What happened to him is very sad, but at the same time, he is a big boy and he
knows what happened was very stupid. He shouldn't be beat up because of it.
Bruce was a good guy who
liked to drink a lot. He is one of the reasons I will be giving up smoking very
soon. I am sorry I didn't make his wake, but I didn't want to run into Patrick
Collins. By the way, that whole page eulogy thing he did in AVN was funny.
Bruce hated Patrick Collins. When I signed with Patrick, I went to a party at
Bruce's. He looked at me and said "Watch out, that's an oily mother
fucker." Sure enough, he was right. Bruce had nothing but contempt for
He has a good gig going on
over at Vivid. As far as the content of his movie, I respect what he is trying
to do, but it's just not my bag. As a person, he has always been good to me,
but he's a bit of a bullshitter. He likes to change the rules in the middle of
the game, but overall he's a decent enough guy.
I have a lot of admiration
for Steve Hirsch because he is a consummate businessman. A lot of it is full of
shit. I have always felt you should celebrate what you do and I think he is
embarrassed and tries to gloss over what he does. As a businessman, I have
nothing but respect for him. He has his fingers in so many pies and he's
cornered so many markets.
Kind of the same thing. I
don't appreciate the fact that they tried to shut us down, Russ in particular.
VCA Explicit started out as VCA Extreme until we got the lawyers involved.
Russ, because of his history with Rob went out of his way to use his influence
to fuck with us. I also don't appreciate that he pulled me aside when I was
going through my tax shit and he told me to roll over. He is very afraid of the
Government. He tried to get me to make a deal with them, but where was he when
I needed legal aid. Russ is a bit of a bully.
I like Chris. He came from
where I came from. He was an actor in the industry and started his own company.
I didn't like working for him very much because he wants two or three guys with
one girl. Maybe that's his preference, but I didn't enjoy working for him. I
was always having to avoid the other guys in the scene. As a business man and a
person, he was always very fair and up front with me.
Another renegade. Someone
who went against the status quo and have become successful. Do I think they are
the greatest thing in the world? That Stagliano is God and can do no wrong? No.
They do have some good looking girls in their videos, but they are all
European. You can't make the same connection when they can't speak English.
They are gorgeous, nasty women and I don't think anyone does it better when it
comes to that.
It's just a company now.
Their biggest year was 1997. It's the one that put them on the map and the one
that Patrick is always going to have to live up to. They churn movies out, some
are better than others, but it's all pretty much churned out for the sake of a
buck. Patrick is always going on like he's this upstanding citizen and honest
businessman. He's such a bullshitter. The main reason he calls me Rob Black's
bitch is that he can't imagine how two people can get along and have respect
for one another. He's always trying to get over on someone. You can believe
none of what you hear from the man.
He's a cool guy. I was a
little upset with him when he went with Elegant just because I had offered him
a position at Extreme. I think he wants to be the Oprah Winfrey of the
industry. He's very PC in that regard. The fact that Rob says what's on his
mind bothered Sean. What you have to remember with Rob is that he has a lot of
that carney mentality. A lot of times what he says is said tongue in cheek.
When you read it on a page, it comes off harsh. Lexington Steele is breathing
down Sean's neck as a performer.
His site is so boring now.
I read it and it has no substance. He's closed so many doors. His views are so
anti-porn. I think he has a lot of moral demons in his head. I don't know what
his game plan is, to shut the industry down or does he want to be part of it.
Would I ever trust him with any information? No. Who knows how he'll use it.
He has very good taste in
movies and he is the only reviewer that is dead on, true and honest and correct
and gives Tom Byron a lot of tens and he's cool.
A good enough kid, but I
think he gets led around by his balls a bit with Ms. Mynx. Good luck over at
Zane. I don't know what the motivation behind that. Chuck Zane is a guy who
fucked his own brother out of money. If Van thinks for a second that Chuck's
going to think twice about fucking him, he's blind. Good luck to him.
A bit of a spoiled brat. I
still kind of like both of them. I know we went through all this crap, back and
forth on the net and the lawsuit and all. I still like these people, they're
just stupid. They tried to take a stance and they ended up walking away with
less than had they not been adversarial. We were never out to fuck them. They
were going to be treated right. I wish they had calmed down, allowed Rob to
calm down and allowed the thing to be worked out like grown ups. It ended up
childish, very childish.
I love Max. He is like a
Ron Jeremy. You can' t take him too seriously. He's a funny guy in a cowboy
hat. Would I want a girl I like to work for him? Probably not, but at the same
time I get a guilty pleasure out of watching him. I have a membership to his
site, it's fucking great.
My best friend. One of the
few people I have found in this industry that I can honestly respect. No matter
what you read or hear, deep down, he is a decent guy. A lot of his bravado has
to be taken with a grain of salt. He is a showman, but deep down he is a decent
A guy who needs to lose
about twenty pounds. A guy who needs to stop smoking and a guy who is looking
forward to the future. The future looks great and I'm glad to get all this bull
shit out. Whatever comes out of this office, we are in this business to make
good movies and make money.
(NOTE: Since this
interview, Tom has lost five pounds and has quit smoking.)
That's it, thanks so much.
Thanks Rog and thanks to
everyone for reading this.