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Tom Byron Interview - Tom Byron's Movies
May 2000
Also see Tom Bryon Interview #2 and Tom Bryon The Retirement Interview (#3)

We have a lot to cover, but let's get the boring porn interview questions out of the way first. Where were you born?

Texas.

Did you grow up in Texas?

Yes.

What were you like growing up?

I was kind of quiet and normal. I get into my own head a lot.

How did you get started in this business?

I knew from an early age that I wanted to do this. As soon as I discovered pornography I knew that it was for me. I was born in 1961 so right about the time my hormones started raging, it was the Golden Age of Porn. I used to go into theaters and watch John Leslie and Jamie Gillis and think that it was a great way to make a living. I got into the whole history of the business, who the directors were, who the main actors were. I'd sit in the middle of the theater, just fascinated by the whole process and I knew that one way or another, one day, I'd be doing that.

Did you come out to California to do movies?

Yeah, expressly for that purpose. I kind of bull shitted my parents that I was coming out to be an actor. I was raised in community theater and come from a very theatrical family. I told them I was coming to California to be a movie star, but I knew what kind of a movie star I wanted to be.

I assume they know now?

Oh yeah. I always try to be up front with my parents. I was out here for a year and a half or so before I found the avenue to get into the. Before I did my first movie, "Up & Cumming"with Marilyn Chambers, I called my mom. She was concerned about my legit career, so I just told her that I had come out here to do this. She said, if you're going to do it, do it like you do everything else, to the best of your ability.

So your first movie was "Up & Cumming?"

That was my first feature. The first video I did was "Anything Goes." If you watch it now, it's hilarious. My head looks like a fucking eggplant.

Who was that first scene with?

Some coke whore, a friend of Bobby Hollander's.

Were you nervous?

Yeah, I was nervous. Not because I was about to have sex, but because I wanted to do it well. I was kind of like Dirk Diggler, all enthusiastic. I was playing an exercise bicycle repairman or something. I was worried about remembering my lines and shit. I didn't have a long sexual history before I got into the business, so I really learned how to fuck in front of the camera. The first few months in the business were a learning experience. I never failed to pull through a scene, but it was touch and go a few times. I was letting my mind fuck with my dick.

How long did that last?

The breakthrough, when I really knew I could do this came on the set
of  "All American Girls in Heat." We were on a boat all day, I had gotten seasick, the call time was five AM. We didn't do the scene until five the next morning. I was tired. The girl I was working with was good looking, so I just told myself, I don't even care if I get a hard on, I'm just going to go in there and have a good time. It was the best scene I had done so far. Once I figured that out, everything fell into place. The other stuff, cheating for the camera and all, that just comes naturally with time.


So you didn't really have any doubt that this was what you wanted to do.

No, I knew, once I did it, I was going to keep doing it. As long as I
could get people to use me.

What year did you get into the business?

1982. May of 82.

So this month is eighteen years. You know what that means?

I know, some girl is going to come to do a scene who was born after I did my first scene.

You were right there in the middle of the Traci Lords controversy. There
were stories that you guys had a relationship. Is that true?


A relationship? We kind of hung out a little bit. I was a young goofy
kid. It turns out she was a young goofy kid too. I didn't have any
indication that she was under age. There were a couple of things that she might have said along the way that with the benefit of hindsight, look a little strange.


Like what?

When we first started hanging out, she said "some of my friends call me
Nora. That's just a nickname. Don't make a big thing out of it." I didn't
make a big thing out of it, but looking back it makes sense. That was her
real name. On her supposed twenty third birthday, I had given her twenty two white roses and one red rose, but not only was it not her real birthday, it wasn't even close to her real age.


In one of the first porn mags I ever read, there was a story that the two of
you were engaged.


Jesus, I was more or less in puppy love with her. Infatuated because she was gorgeous and it was weird that someone that gorgeous was also attracted to me. That was very new to me at the time. It was more puppy love than anything.

Do you think there were people in the industry who knew she was underage and helped her hide it?

The guy who brought her in, Bob or something. He was some guy who pulled his hair over his bald spot and had really crappy teeth. He probably had a clue. There was a guy she was living with, a guy named Tommy, some young surfer kid. There was a point, when we were doing "Sister Dearest" when she said "I have to get away from this guy. He's spending all my money and he treats me like shit." I told her to just get away from him, live with me for a while or whatever. She just kept saying "I can't, he knows to much about me." I just blew it off, she had a place to go if she wanted it. Again, with the benefit of hindsight, what she was alluding to was that he knew her real age and could have turned her in.

Have you spoken to her since?

No. The day that the story broke, it was all over the news. I had a message on my answering machine. "Hi Tommy, this is Christie, call me." I called her back, but she wasn't home.  I haven't spoken to her since.

Do you have any insight as to why she did what she did, or why she has
turned on the industry?


I don't know. We always used to make fun of the naive young girls. She
always seemed to have her shit together. I admired her intelligence and her ambition. She always said that she was going to working for Paramount and none of this is going to matter. She probably knew from day one that eventually the worm was going to turn.


Two other women you worked with early in your career, Ginger Lynn and
Marilyn Chambers have recently made comebacks. What do you think about that?


With Marylyn I don't know. She's a little bit past her prime. I applaud her for having the courage to do it. For me it's like the reason I don't like to go to funerals. I would kind of like to remember people the way they were rather than in a box. That's probably nasty to say, but it's how I feel. Ginger still looks good and she enjoys what she does. More power to her.

What was it like working with these women?

When I worked with Marilyn, it was my very first movie so I really hadn't figured out what to do with my dick yet. I don't really have a great memory of working with her because I didn't know what I was doing. We had a couple of scenes a few years later that were fun. With Ginger I actually did her very first scene. It was a Golden Girls loop. She was this perfect little sex bomb. Girls back then didn't allow themselves to be that nasty sexually. More than just being pretty and having a great body, she allowed herself to go father than anyone else who looked like that.

She was almost too pretty to be doing that.

Exactly. That stuff was more for the street whore types. She was the first box cover quality girl who would do that sort of stuff. New Wave Hookers

The DP scene from 'New Wave Hookers' was classic.

We shot that thing in like an hour. It just flowed. Personally, it's not one of my favorite scenes though. I have never liked doing scenes with another guy in it. If you notice in the last three or four years, I haven't been in any scenes with any other guys. All you do is spend your time avoiding the other guy. A girl can't give the best head if she's being pounding from behind. You don't see a lot of that in the movies that do. I like one on one or two girls on one guy.

Do you have any idea how many movies you've been in, even a ball park
figure?


Close to two thousand, but I don't have any idea exactly how many.

LA 399 You're right up there at the top of the list, the all time porn King.

I guess.

Out of all of those, could pick out a few favorites?

There were a few that sort of put me on the map. "Private Teacher" that I did in 1984. That was my first big roll where the story centered around me. "Kinky Business" was another. Those are movies that came out when I was coming up and helped establish me, the "Taboo American Style" movies as well. Lately, I liked "LA 399" it was a nice little part, a good script. When I have the most fun is when I just fuck. That's why I make the kind of movies that I make. The setting up of actors and set and all doesn't really appeal to me. I'm constantly trying to improve on what I'm doing. I may change at some point down the road and do a movie with a script, but now it just doesn't appeal to me. What appeals to me know is learning all of the facets of the industry that I haven't been exposed to.

Was there ever anyone in the last eighteen years who you really wanted to
do a scene with, but somehow slipped through your fingers?


Cynthia Brooks.

(Tom catches Rog nodding.)

See? You know what I'm talking about. Cynthia Brooks man. Marie Sharp who was in the original "Café Flesh." There are probably a few others here and there, but most of them have come my way. And now, I can just call them up and put them in a movie. Oh, I know one, Nikki Andersson. I want to fuck her and Silvia Saint too.

Do you get fan mail from women?

Sometimes.

Ever hook up with any of them?

No.

Ever get fan mail from any good looking women?

No. I don't have a fan club or anything. People send some things to a mail box that I check about twice a year. By the time I check the mail, it's two or three months old.

Are there any directors who you worked for you really impressed you?

John Leslie was good. I really admire his sense of organization and
creativity. Brad Armstrong also impressed me. We were doing a movie with Jenna and he wasn't happy with this dialog scene. A lot of people would just do one or two takes and Move on. Brad sat down with us and communicated what he wanted. The scene turned out better than it would have been with any other director.


You've been active for eighteen straight years right?

There was that one year where I wanted to get into the music business, but my heart wasn't really into it. I know I have talent for singing. I was in the Texas All-State Choir for a year. I wasn't really happy with what was happening in the industry at that time and I wanted something to fall back on. My heart was never really into the music business though. This is what I do, it's what I enjoy.

Do you think you'll ever pursue music again?

Sure, I'll go to a Karaoke and tear the place up. Rob plays the guitar and Lazie was the bassist for Danzig so we sometimes get together and fuck around a little bit. To actually consider a music career, probably not. Just like I wouldn't really consider a legitimate acting career. I know I could do it, and if Hollywood wants me, I'm not too hard to track down. But to play that whole game, not interested.

I'd say you've got a pretty thing going as it is. Don't fix it if ain't
broke.


Exactly.

How did you hook up with Patrick Collins and Elegant Angel?

I had shot a couple of scenes and I knew I had the eye. I've been studying other people's stuff for years. I looked at Stagliano's stuff, I looked at Leslie's stuff and I knew I could do it. I was negotiating with Stagliano and a couple of other people, Mike Rubinstein at Devil's Films, Chris Alexander at Anabolic. If I was going to do it, I didn't want to go with a fly by night company or someone who didn't understand the genre that I wanted to be in. Stagliano had an offer on the table, but he was kind of dragging his feet about it. I had worked for Patrick on a Bottom Dweller or something and he invited me in to talk. A lot of my motivation for that was to force John's hand. Patrick and I worked out a deal and we started doing it.

How did the Cumback Pussy series start? Was that the concept you had going into the deal?

Whack Attack Not really. My first title that I had was Whack Attack. It's kind of like,
you watch it, you want to whack off, you have a Whack Attack. Pat had heard this old blues song Comeback Pussy, and he liked it. I didn't care, I just wanted to do my series. Who gives a fuck what it's called. That's where that name came from.


Was "Cumback Pussy 1" the first entire movie you had directed?

Yes. I had directed a couple of scenes before. One time, on a Brat movie,
Paul Thomas had the flu and left early so I finished the rest of the day,
directing a sex scene and some dialog.


Cumback Pussy How was it different being behind the camera for a full movie?

I just kept things really simple. To this day, I keep things simple. I have
a still photographer who also holds the lights and that's my crew. It just
all came naturally.


You mentioned the Brat movies, you did a lot of those.

Yeah, I was Morty. I started with Jamie Summers, then Nikki Randall then it was that Julianne James. She was a fucking pain in the ass.

Really?

Yeah, I did a couple with her and then told PT that I didn't want to do any more. It was one thing when we had Jamie Summers, but now it was a coked out, chubby, pain in the ass Julianne.

You did the same sort of role in the Tori Welles Vivid movies.

That's right, she was the fucking Brat too. She was fun, but I only did one or two movies with her.

Would you say that Jamie Summers was the favorite of the Brat girls?

Oh yeah. She had one of those pussies you couldn't put it in. You would have to beat yourself on the head to keep from cumming because it was like fucking melted butter. I had the worst time working with her because I felt like I couldn't move, but she was great.

While you were with Elegant Angel, you and Rob, and Van specifically, did
you guys hang out together or were you off doing your own things?


We kind of came together. The whole thing there is hard to get into. It was a good learning experience and Pat really wasn't around that whole year. When we did see him, all he did was bitch and moan. I'll tell you one thing about Patrick Collins, he is the ultimate pimp. He's a guy that makes all the money and takes all the credit for someone else's work. The guy started out as Tianna's husband, her suitcase pimp, the guy holding her cum towel. Tianna worked for Stagliano. Stagliano liked Tianna and was just starting up this company. Patrick wedged himself in there as a salesman. He was selling Buttman, which at that time was revolutionary. As a matter of fact, I worked on the very first Buttman movie and I thought it was kind of weird. There is this guy behind the camera who's a character? Once I watched it, I got it. This was something that turned the industry on its ear and all the video stores needed it. Most of the other stuff around at that time was dreck, it was just horrible, so every video store across the country, and across the world, had to have Buttman. It wasn't like Pat had to sell a fucking Mitchell Spinelli movie. It sold itself, but he takes all the credit for that, for building the Evil Empire. Then John gives him a series and a company, Elegant Angel and he rides the crest of the Evil Empire, pushing that Sodomania crap. Then he takes that company that John had given to him, gets an office right across from them and goes head to head by creating confusion in the marketplace, keeping the name, Elegant Angel. To this day, people still say 'You used to be with Evil Angel.' Then he got lucky with me and Rob and Van and the people that were the creative hub of that business in 1997. Whatever he says, 1997 is the biggest year he will ever have in his whole fucking sorry career in this business. Then he used us as leverage with distributors. He said to distributors, 'you're going to take THIS many pieces of this crap and if you don't, I'm not going to let you have the Tom Byron movie or the Rob Black movie that sells.' He has always bullied them. Back when he was with Buttman, he would bully them. That's why when we broke off from him, the distributors were all licking their chops. Now it was 'fuck you Pat.' He doesn't have that leverage to play off of. It's another example of him using other people's talents. To this day, he's still using what we did. He's still using Cumback Pussy, still using Booty Duty, he just did Miscreants Too. He's still trying to fool the consumers into thinking they are getting the same thing as they got in 1997, which they are not. His business has suffered and it will continue to suffer. He wants to talk about me being Rob's bitch, Patrick Collins is my bitch. We are living rent free inside of his head. He has to look around at the failure and all the business that he has lost and have a focal point for that. The focal point is us. To this day, two and a half years later, he still talks smack. If you read that article in AVN, three quarters of that was about how we did him wrong. We put that mother fucker on the map. Bottom line, he's in my business. I was here ten years before he wedged himself in and I'll be here ten years after he's gone off to whatever his next failed venture will be. So, fuck you Pat.

While you were still there, Marc Wallice came out as HIV Positive?

Actually, that came out right after we left.

But you were working with him shortly before he came out.

He was working and I was working. We weren't really working together.

Do you think he was performing while he was positive?

He definitely performed while he was positive because all of those girls also turned up positive.

Do you think he performed when he knew he was positive?

I could say something, but it would be pure speculation on my part. If in fact he did and he knew, then those are demons that are going to haunt him the rest of his life. He doesn't need me to add fuel to the fucking fire. Do I think he is a person that is self-centered and capable of doing such a monstrous thing? Based on what I knew, yeah, but I can't say for sure that he did.

Have you spoken with him since then?

Nope. I prefer to associate with people who are looking forward and aren't self-centered losers.

Did that scare you at all?

It saddened me and it was really frustrating. We had just started a company when all that crap was going on. Everyone was rushing to go all condoms. I know as a consumer, I don't like to see performers using condoms because any guy watching porno wants to put himself in the place of the guy fucking. I know that condoms just don't feel good. As a company looking to make a name for ourselves, that we couldn't do something like that. We took a lot of flack for that but at the same time I wasn't sitting behind a desk mandating condoms or no condoms without putting myself at risk. I perform in front of the camera too and I am convinced that the transfer from female to male is small as to be insignificant. I am comfortable enough with proper testing and the way we have sex, that the risk factor is something I can live with.

At the CES show in January of 1998, you, Rob, Van and Tiffany were all part of that Elegant Angel team that swept all the AVN awards. Shortly after that, you guys bolted out the door. What's your take on that situation?

I knew from the beginning that I wouldn't be staying with Pat for a long time because there was no real future in it. I never wanted someone else to have that much control over me. Once I figured out that I could do this, I knew I would be breaking off on my own. I even told him that. My goal was to branch out and do my own thing. I also knew that I couldn't do just a couple of movies and then jump ship. I would end up like a Mike South going from company to company every other month. You don't know where to find the movies. I knew I had to put in at least a year and maybe garner some awards to really establish myself as a player. Once I did that, I knew what would come of it. With the people I was hanging out with at the time, it just sort of fell into place. To tell you the truth, I didn't like Rob when I first met him. He's kind of the opposite of my personality. He's boisterous you know. The first time I met him, this was even before he had hooked up with Elegant, we were in a hotel room, smoking dope he turned to me and said "What are you going to do with your life man? Are you just going to fuck forever?" I just thought, who the fuck is this guy. Then later, he turned up at Elegant Angel and I couldn’t believe it. As the year went on and we both started to trust each other and confide in each other. We compliment each other well. Where as he has a short temper and sometimes flies off the wall, I am the voice of reason and can talk to him. We fill in gaps for each other.

You've lasted two and a half years and that seems like an eternity for a porn partnership.

It helps that we're best friends. I don't agree with everything he says, but bottom line, he is a person that I trust and can confide in and vice versa. We're best friends. I know when to give him his space and likewise.

There have been a number of contract girls at Extreme throughout the years, why do you think there have been so many?

The whole idea of having contract girls in the first place has been weird for us. With the whole HIV scare going on, it was hard to find girls who would work without condoms. That was one motivation. Also, we were a new company and we had to decide what to do. You look at Vivid and they have a whole bunch of contract girls, so that could have elevated the status of our company. Did it work? Who knows? It was for convenience to give us a talent poll to work with who would go with the program.

One of the first ones to go was Stryc9, now Cherry Mirage. Was she fired or did she quit?

That was kind of weird. She is a very pretty girl and obviously one of your favorites, but she is a bit of a spoiled brat. I don't know if you noticed, but in her scenes, she was not all that into it when it came to the sex. She was just there to be cutesy-pretty. When it came down to being real and ferocious and extreme, she didn't really fit the bill but she looked great on a box. It was just one of those silly little things that gets all blown out and feelings get hurt. Basically, she wanted to get paid for scenes she hadn't done because it was the twenty-first of the month and she was guaranteed a certain number of scenes. In hindsight, that that was a bad way to go when it comes to a contract. After a while, every movie that comes out has the same people in it. She didn't like to have scenes canceled because she had to prepare, but we were still a new company. There were three people doing ten jobs each. Being the spoiled brat that she is, she just couldn't understand that. I think if she looks back on her time with us, based on what her career is at this point, I don't think that she can honestly say that it was a terrible time. Let's be real, it put her on the fucking map. What's she going to do working for Bobby Rinaldi?

What about Alana Evans and Monique?

Those contracts became impractical at the time. We had distributors complain that every single movie had the same girls in them. We had done all we could with them and we parted ways. There were no hard feelings. Rob kind of ran his mouth about her not getting a tit job, but the bottom line was the we needed to restructure our contracts.

More recently, Ashlyn Gere left.

That was just a mess. Let me just say right off the bat that we are here to be in business. We're not out to win a popularity contest. We do things that make sense from a business standpoint. If they don't make sense, we change them. We thought that the Ashlyn Gere thing would be a huge coup for a new company. We thought that the Ashlyn Gere comeback would sell thousands more pieces and would be this huge thing and she could elevate the status of the company. It just didn't work. For what we were paying her, which was substantial, the return was minimal. People just went 'Ashlyn Gere? She's old, so what?' She wasn't really the intense sort of sexual deviant that we like. Look at Jessica Darlin, she's pretty, young and she's filthy. She genuinely loves what she does. Ashlyn is more the old school, let me do as little as possible and be a Princess. Still, the biggest thing with Ashlyn is that she came with her husband, Layne Parker. He is a hack director, a horrible editor and a general piece of shit. We had to re-edit "LA 399" three times because he didn't understand a simple concept. There would be music in the background with a voice over. When the voice over started, he would cut the music so it was silent. He couldn't cut it as an editor and we were paying him a lot of money. We did not want to spend that much money making shitty half-ass movies. Nobody likes to give up the ship, but we tried. We didn't trust him to direct a whole movie anymore, so we kept him on as a shooter and editor. He didn't live up to his end of the deal which was to make a competent movie. They didn't agree with that and Ashlyn sided with her man. The way the whole split came about was that she didn't show up for CES. Everyone knew that CES was going on during that time. She knew that she had to sign autographs. She knew the times, but no one specifically called her the day before. Ashlyn expected to be treated like a queen. She had this illusion that she was better than all the other girls, that she was Ashlyn Gere, award winning actress. She was supposed to be part of the team. I think she had a big problem working for a former actor and a twenty six year old kid. Never mind that he's an extremely intelligent twenty-six year old kid who was raised in the industry and has a lot of business sense. I don't know what they expected from us, but it didn't work out. No hard feelings, more power to her, but that's not the way we work here. Everyone who works for Extreme works with us, we're a team, a family. Jessica Darlin is the nicest person because she realizes that the company isn't all about her. It's about making money and making good movies. Her husband makes good movies. Last Breath He has a passion for it and he doesn't think he's the greatest thing in the world like Layne Parker does. Layne had this condescending attitude, but Luis Cyper isn't like that. I can give him hints and tips and we all work together to make a better movie. His last movie, "Last Breath" got a 5 Star from Adam Film World and they don't just throw those things around.

What about Jon Dough and Monique DeMoan?

Jon Dough has a drug problem with speed. He had just gotten out of jail on drug related charges and his Vivid contract was over.  He came to see us for work and it was Rob's idea to make him a contract guy. Rob's all about how can we angle it to make it a big thing. This ex-Vivid guy now with Extreme. Rob knows how to play that sort of thing. I was reluctant and suggested we have him work for us a few times to see how he did. Rob was insistent, so we signed him up. The second week after we signed the contract, the man disappears for four days. No one could get in touch with him. He comes into the office the next week, drawn out, eyes dancing around. He said it wouldn't happen again. I told Rob that we weren't helping Jon, but he doesn't like to give up. After the second time, third time, fourth time it got old. There was one scene we had to rebook three times because he couldn't get his cock hard. A week after his last binge, he came storming in. We were busy and couldn't talk to him at that moment. He was in the lobby and got all pissed off. He came in the next day and said "I want out of my contract." I said "Fine." Then he says "And I want all the money I'm supposed to make this month. According to my contract, I'm guaranteed this amount." I just said "Jon, you negated that contract the first time you decided to bang speed. You can wipe your ass with this contract." He didn't like to hear that and stood up, threatened to bash a bottle over my head. Monique grabbed his arm and took him out. That's the whole Jon Dough story. Bottom line, I hope he's doing better. There is a nice guy under that tortured exterior, the guy that I knew when he first got into the business. I think a big problem with him is Monique. As she mentioned in her interview, I've partied with her. She is fun to do fucking drugs with and I think that's a big problem for Jon. She'll put her head up your ass, you can fucking piss all over her, whatever. I think that's a big problem for Jon. He has a partner in misery. I hear that they're both clean now. I hope they stay that way and wish them both the best.

What about Jasmin St. Claire?

I like Jasmin. I admire her ambition and energy, but she has a real self esteem problem. The way she compensates for that is to lash out and cut other people down. It's a need to elevate herself at the expense of others. She has a lot of issues she needs to deal with. It didn't make sense to keep someone on board who was constantly rocking the boat. She would cause problems with this person and that person it never ended. We parted ways and now she's back doing gang bangs for Metro. It's sad in a way, but I like Jasmin. I hope that some day she works out these issues. To tell you the truth, I see a lot of Savannah in Jasmin. Not in the drugs because I don't think Jasmin abuses drugs, but in the way she compensates for her low self esteem by lashing out at other people.

What ever happened with the Victoria Paris comeback?

I don’t really know, I think she got spooked by the whole HIV thing. When Rob was talking to her, it was during that whole mess, but I never talked to her so I can't say for sure.

And the last big split to talk about was with Van Damage and Tiffany Mynx.

I think they were in over their heads from the beginning. Neither of them had a sense of what it took to help maintain a company. That means being responsible, having your movies done on time, things like that. They thought it would just be a free ride. Ultimately, it was going to be me and Rob. Van was my cameraman and I was comfortable with him. We were both kind of pissed off at Pat so it would fuck him more. Rob was hedging a bit, but he agreed. Van was going out with Tiffany so she came along with that package. We should have had a clue what was going to happen when we saw what she did to Patrick. The day she quit, she went out and charged twenty thousand dollars worth of stuff on Patrick's credit card. Van couldn't seem to get his movies done on time and with a new company if you miss a release date, that's thousands of dollars that you are never going to get back. You have to be responsible enough to do your job if you're going to represent the company. They went out to an open house back east for a major distributor. This guy takes tons of product, so he's important. They went for this signing, flew all the way to New York. There was no one meet them at the airport, so instead of being responsible adults, Tiffany got all pissy. They got on a plane and came back, basically telling this big distributor to go fuck himself. That's something you don't do. It's childish and petty, but we forgave all that. It came to a head when we went down to Brazil. Tiffany and Van were leery about going to Brazil. They had some image that it was people in grass skirts and they were going to be kidnapped and burned at the stake. Neither of them wanted to go and they kept making excuses. We all had to go to represent the company. The day before we left, we had to go down and get our visas. All of a sudden Tiffany can't find her passport. It was bull shit, she didn't want to go and had tried every other excuse in the book. This was her last desperate attempt. At that point Rob and I just said fuck it, stay home. Even Van tried to get out of at that point. We sent someone down to get his visa for him. While we were gone, Tiffany was in charge of my house. She was supposed to take care of the dogs, not have people over, just be a responsible adult. That was obviously a huge mistake because our dogs got let out. She left the gate open or something. That we could have lived with, but she had people staying at the house while we were gone. There was a lot of drama in Brazil and Rob just flipped. He called her up and said "You're fired, get out of the house." We didn't want her in the house because we didn't trust her. We told Van that he was welcome to stay. Rob and I decided that the only this would work is if he and I were partners and did things equally. Rob was taking on too much himself and we both needed to dig in to take control of our company. We told Van that he could stay, but we had to get things done on time. He needed time to think about it. We got back to LA and he took all of his stuff out of the house and disappeared. The next thing I know, he's serving us with a lawsuit. If they hadn't taken an adversarial position and let things cool down, all would have been forgiven. Everything else had always been smoothed over. They decided to get a lawyer and play tough. I think they would have ended up back here in some capacity had they just handled it like grown ups. They wanted to take an adversarial position and that's just not something you do with us. We've survived having everyone in the business try to put us out of business. Russ Hampshire tried to put us out of business, tried to steal our name with VCA Extreme. Steve Hirsch did the same thing. Patrick tried to bully distributors to shut us down. He called up this Canadian distributor and said that if they took Extreme, they couldn't have Elegant Angel. They said "I guess we won't take Elegant Angel." He doesn't have the leverage that he once did because his movies are crap. If I tried, I wouldn't know how to make a movie bad enough to get a two in AVN. He gets them all the time. Cumback Pussy gets a three? It's ridiculous.

Are you trying to do anything different with Whack Attack and Planet of the Gapes than you did with Cumback Pussy?

I have experimented with different things. I think my editing is more concise. The scenes don't run as long as they used to, but it's basically the same format. You want to see a girl looking great, see her presented in the right way in the montage. I have strayed away sometimes. In Whack Attack 5, I put in a lot more behind the scenes stuff, made it more of a travel log thing. I did that with Cumback Pussy 10 when I went to the UK. In that respect, sometimes I vary from the formula, but like you said, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I figure I'll get people who really want to fuck each other and let them go at it.

If you had to pick one movie that you've directed that you think is your very best work, what would it be?

Whack Attack 3

I don't know, Whack Attack 2, Whack Attack 3, Whack Attack 7. I really like them all, it just sort of depends on the cast.

Did you follow the Rough Sex controversy at all?

A little bit on the internet.

Did you see the movies?

I saw a little bit of number two. It didn't really appeal to me because it was unmotivated violence. I don't have a problem with depictions of violence on screen, but there needs to be a reason for it. I've told Rob the same thing many times. He did this movie called "Shooting Gallery" which is close to Rough Sex, it's slapping and spitting and choking, dunking girls' heads in toilets. There was no reason for it. It was a series of vignettes with unmotivated violence. Then he did "Week and a Half in the Life of a Prostitute" Week and a Half in the Life of a Prostitute which had the same sort of degradation, but it was woven in with a story so it made sense. It was a little more palatable. Unmotivated violence and degradation for the entertainment of sick people has no appeal to me. Not to say that people shouldn't do it, if that's you thing, fine. It's just not my bag.

You just started Armageddon Entertainment. Tell me a little about that company.

It's basically a company that gives distributors an option. Extreme is high end, high price product that we sell to distributors at a base price. We actually held out on a big distributor for a year because they wouldn't pay our minimum. We wanted to give distributors an option so we created Armageddon. We sell it a slightly lower price. It's still the same quality product, but it gives them more options. If they only have a certain budget, they can buy their Evil Angel, Extreme and Anabolic at a certain price, then they need to buy their Zane, Midnight and other low end stuff. With that stuff, you get what you pay for. We wanted to give them a low price option, but make it a better product. It's basically to steal other people's share of that market.

I've read rumors that this company may be the first step towards you and Rob splitting.

No, that's never going to happen. We are partners, fifty-fifty, Extreme, XPW, Armageddon, all of it. We both have equal say in what goes on. The only reason for creating a new company like Armageddon is to give distributors and option and my name is on it because my name moves product. Rob and I won't split because we understand each other. I don't agree with everything he says, he doesn't agree with everything I say, but we have a mutual respect and trust for each other. We're not trying to fuck each other. Most of our time is spent together, we have the same office, we live in the same house, and it works.

What's going on with Extreme now? Contract Girls etc.?

We've got Kristi Myst and Jessica Darlin as contract girls and Lizzie as a director and she's into the wrestling end of things.

Any new directors to look out for?

Luis Cypher is really good. Lazie is doing some things. He just did a thing called "New Blood" which is sort of an Ed Powers goes to Hell thing.

Amber Lynn recently made a comeback with you guys, but she's not a contract girl right?

No. There was never a contract. We talked about doing something, but she's another one who just thinks that people should bow down to her because she's Amber Lynn. That just didn't make sense. We're all fucking equal here.

She doesn't look that good either.

You said that. Rog said it, she doesn't look that good any more. I'm not saying we'll never sign another contract girl, but if we do it's got to be the right person. Just because you sign on the dotted line, it doesn't give you the right to be a cunt. If we never sign another contract girl, so what? Our numbers are getting bigger all the time.

Do you have time to watch other people's stuff?

Sometimes. Like I said, I got a copy of Rough Sex 2, every once in a while I'll jet over to Evil Angel to grab a couple of Rocco movies to see the new European girls. I saw "Double Feature." It was an interesting little movie. I didn't laugh my ass off, but it was a nicely put together little piece. I saw that thing from VCA, "In Search of Awesome Pussy", I forget who did that one.

JJ Michaels.

I know who directed, but who the fuck wrote it?

Next topic. If you could pick anyone in the world, actress, model anyone, and put them in a Whack Attack movie, who would they be?

Anyone?

Anyone at all.

Britney Spears, Alyssa Milano and that chick from Star Wars, fucking Natalie Portman. She is so pretty. And Liz Hurley, she's fucking hot.

Whack Attack 10

So that's the dream cast for Whack Attack 10?

Yeah, that's the kind of girls I like. The dark eyes, the young face, that whole thing.

Who do you think is the best fuck of your career?

Jessica Darlin is one of them, absolutely. She is easily my best fuck currently. Someone commented recently that I used her again, but fuck that, I like fucking her.

Who was the worst?

Lee Carrol was horrible,

Why?

She was old, she was drunk and she fucked like a board. I don't really like older women. I had to work with Tantala a few times. She is a sweet lady, but just didn't do anything for me. Forgive me Gloria, I love you, but Gloria Leonard in Taboo American Style was not good. It was also a head trip because she's supposed to be my mom and that didn't help. She wasn't a bad fuck, I just wasn't turned on to her.

There were some pictures posted recently on the net of you and what appears to be a transsexual.

Oh, it was a transsexual, absolutely.

So the pictures are real?

Yeah, I did a still shoot in like 82 or 83. You have to remember, that time was still part of that sexual revolution thing. It was hip to be bi and experiment. I have never been attracted to men, I'm still not. I don't think men are attractive, but there was something intriguing about a man who looked like a woman. It was purely experimentation to see what it was like. I felt weird when I was doing it. It was kind of a sick thrill, but I knew it wasn't my cup of tea, but I did it. So what? I did it twenty years ago, it doesn't mean I'm gay. It was just something I experimented with. I am from the old school way of thinking, if it feels good, do it. I don't pass judgment on other people's sexuality and I don't expect them to pass judgment on mine. I like my ass played with, because I happen to be male, I happen to have a prostate gland and it happens to feel good. I don't care what the guys in the pool hall fucking say. To me, homophobia comes from people struggling with their own sexuality. I don't care what other guys think, especially Ramsey.

Why do you think people made such a big deal? Did you ever deny that the pictures existed?

No. First of all, this whole thing happened at the time when Rob was shooting his mouth off about Stagliano which I didn't agree with. I told Rob that it's one thing to go after Vivid or Russ or Patrick because there is actually a good fight there and it's part of doing business. You don't need to shoot at some guy who made a mistake. He knows he made a mistake and he doesn't need to be blasted for it. It was a cheap shot and I told Rob that. I told him that it might come back to bite him on the ass and sure enough, it did. It shut him up though.

So you didn't deny it?

I like to play with people's heads. How do you know that I didn't put the pictures up myself? When the picture thing came up, Gene Ross approached me. I said "Gene, maybe they are real, maybe they aren't. Maybe they're like the Oswald photos. Maybe they're doctored." Gene presented it like I denied it. I never said that. I said what if. What if I put them on the net myself? I'm not saying I did, I'm just presenting the question.

Do you follow the internet at all?

I like to read RAME and the gossip sites. It's kind of a voyeuristic thrill. I love Ramsey. He is so obsessed with everything that goes on with Extreme and Rob Black and Tom Byron. I have always said that there is no such thing as bad publicity in porno. We are the lowest rung of the entertainment ladder, so what kind of effect is anything going to have on us? That guy has done more for us publicity wise than any ad in AVN. He has sold us a lot of tapes so I want to say thank you and if I'm ever in Holland, I'd love to buy you a beer. His opinion doesn't really mean shit to me. I love how he calls me and Mark Davis losers. We're having sex with beautiful women, he's sitting behind a computer six  thousand miles away bitching. Who's the fucking loser?

Do you have a web site?

www.extremeassociates.com and www.xpwrestling.com and www.xpleasures.com We are looking to upgrade those.

Do you know who Thomas Zupko is?

Yeah.

What the fuck is his problem?

I don't know. He's a fucking wanna-be. He came in looking for a deal before he went to Stagliano. He and Brian Surewood came in, broke out a couple of beers and talked. The guy has a lot of energy and a good line of bullshit. Is he a great movie maker? I don't know. I didn't see Anal Ball. From what  I hear and from what certain critics say, I didn't miss much. If a guy like that can get his bull shit out there and get over, more power to him. Am I worried about Thomas Zupko stealing our share of the market? No.

What about XPW, what's going on with that?

We have been running shows since July. It has really taken off. I think it's something that has been a long time coming for the west coast. ECW, WCW and WWF are all east coast. There is a hole in the market and we've had success. We sold out the Palace like three times and we're doing shows in the LA Sports Arena now. We are kind of touring the Southern California area. It's doing so well that ECW is suing us, telling us we can't be Xtreme. We have one of the big boys of wrestling concerned. Shane Douglass used us as leverage for his new contract with WCW. When he was in between contracts, we were going to work something out. He's back in WCW because of XPW.

Is wrestling something you've followed for a long time?

Off and on throughout my life. When I was a kid I watched the Masked Marvel and some of that. I got away from it for a long time, then came back in the mid eighties. After I saw "Rocky 3", I started watching the WWF with Hulk Hogan. I fell away again, but recently I've been back. Rob is a huge wrestling fan so I started to watch it again. Now I'm actually pretty well informed. I know what's going on in all three federations. It's very similar to the porn industry. There is a carney type of promotion. Porno is based on bullshit. It's people having sex. They may be enjoying it, or maybe not. It's not the way thing happen in real life and wrestling is the same way. Is it real or is it bullshit? Some parts are real, some aren't and you accept the bullshit. In porno and in wrestling.

Are you going to wrestling at all?

No man, I'm not in that kind of shape.

Good, because I don't know if I could deal with Tom Byron in tights.

I might do some ring work or be a character down the line, but I like being front office on that thing.

I've got some names here on a list, I'd like to run them by you and just get your general impressions.

OK

Ginger Lynn

Cute Girl. Great in the sack and a nice person.

Amber Lynn

I never really enjoyed having sex with her. She was never that attractive to me and always had a problem with the nose candy. I don't like working with people who are strung out.

Christy Canyon

She was part of that whole mid 80's fun era. I always thought she was dumb back that, but as I got to know her, she's pretty intelligent. It's been fun watching her mature over the years.

Marilyn Chambers

I don't really know that much about her. I know as much as you do. I had seen her before I got in the business and it was a trip to work with her, but I don't know enough about her to form an opinion.

Peter North

I like Peter. He's a good kid. He should come clean with his past. Not that it's anybody's business, but it makes no sense to hide. By denying it, it gives people fuel to make it look bad.

Traci Lords

Pretty Girl. She wouldn't have the career she has without the notoriety she got from us, so for her to downgrade the industry isn't right. At the same time, I understand it because the world is not ready to accept and unrepentant porn star, which is why Ginger never made it. She never rolled over on us. The IRS came after her for the same way.

If Traci wanted to come back and make a movie for you, would you accept her?

Probably, just because I know I would make a lot of money off it.

There are those who would say they wouldn't let her back because of what she did to the industry.

Then those people aren't good business people.

Ron Jeremy

I like Ron. He is Ronnie man. Would I put him in a movie? Probably not, because I don't find it appealing seeing him have sex, but how can you not love Ronnie.

Candy Evans.

I loved her, she was fun, perfect body, great voice. Every time I worked with her was fucking magic.

John Leslie

I respect him a lot, not only as a director but as a person. He is a guy you can genuinely look up to in the business. Very talented guy.

John Stagliano

Same thing, tons of respect. I think sometimes his ego gets to be a little much. He thinks that he's the only one who has the right to make pornography. To a certain extent, he created a new genre, but there are other people who have picked it up and taken it a step further. I like his movies, but at the same time I get a little bored because he is so fixated on the ass. There are other parts of a woman. His obsession is dead on but I think he needs more variety to his game plan. What happened to him is very sad, but at the same time, he is a big boy and he knows what happened was very stupid. He shouldn't be beat up because of it.

Bruce Seven

Bruce was a good guy who liked to drink a lot. He is one of the reasons I will be giving up smoking very soon. I am sorry I didn't make his wake, but I didn't want to run into Patrick Collins. By the way, that whole page eulogy thing he did in AVN was funny. Bruce hated Patrick Collins. When I signed with Patrick, I went to a party at Bruce's. He looked at me and said "Watch out, that's an oily mother fucker." Sure enough, he was right. Bruce had nothing but contempt for Patrick Collins.

Paul Thomas

He has a good gig going on over at Vivid. As far as the content of his movie, I respect what he is trying to do, but it's just not my bag. As a person, he has always been good to me, but he's a bit of a bullshitter. He likes to change the rules in the middle of the game, but overall he's a decent enough guy.

Vivid Video

I have a lot of admiration for Steve Hirsch because he is a consummate businessman. A lot of it is full of shit. I have always felt you should celebrate what you do and I think he is embarrassed and tries to gloss over what he does. As a businessman, I have nothing but respect for him. He has his fingers in so many pies and he's cornered so many markets.

VCA

Kind of the same thing. I don't appreciate the fact that they tried to shut us down, Russ in particular. VCA Explicit started out as VCA Extreme until we got the lawyers involved. Russ, because of his history with Rob went out of his way to use his influence to fuck with us. I also don't appreciate that he pulled me aside when I was going through my tax shit and he told me to roll over. He is very afraid of the Government. He tried to get me to make a deal with them, but where was he when I needed legal aid. Russ is a bit of a bully.

Anabolic

I like Chris. He came from where I came from. He was an actor in the industry and started his own company. I didn't like working for him very much because he wants two or three guys with one girl. Maybe that's his preference, but I didn't enjoy working for him. I was always having to avoid the other guys in the scene. As a business man and a person, he was always very fair and up front with me.

Evil Angel

Another renegade. Someone who went against the status quo and have become successful. Do I think they are the greatest thing in the world? That Stagliano is God and can do no wrong? No. They do have some good looking girls in their videos, but they are all European. You can't make the same connection when they can't speak English. They are gorgeous, nasty women and I don't think anyone does it better when it comes to that.

Elegant Angel

It's just a company now. Their biggest year was 1997. It's the one that put them on the map and the one that Patrick is always going to have to live up to. They churn movies out, some are better than others, but it's all pretty much churned out for the sake of a buck. Patrick is always going on like he's this upstanding citizen and honest businessman. He's such a bullshitter. The main reason he calls me Rob Black's bitch is that he can't imagine how two people can get along and have respect for one another. He's always trying to get over on someone. You can believe none of what you hear from the man.

Sean Michaels

He's a cool guy. I was a little upset with him when he went with Elegant just because I had offered him a position at Extreme. I think he wants to be the Oprah Winfrey of the industry. He's very PC in that regard. The fact that Rob says what's on his mind bothered Sean. What you have to remember with Rob is that he has a lot of that carney mentality. A lot of times what he says is said tongue in cheek. When you read it on a page, it comes off harsh. Lexington Steele is breathing down Sean's neck as a performer.

Luke Ford

His site is so boring now. I read it and it has no substance. He's closed so many doors. His views are so anti-porn. I think he has a lot of moral demons in his head. I don't know what his game plan is, to shut the industry down or does he want to be part of it. Would I ever trust him with any information? No. Who knows how he'll use it.

Roger Pipe

He has very good taste in movies and he is the only reviewer that is dead on, true and honest and correct and gives Tom Byron a lot of tens and he's cool.

Van Damage

A good enough kid, but I think he gets led around by his balls a bit with Ms. Mynx. Good luck over at Zane. I don't know what the motivation behind that. Chuck Zane is a guy who fucked his own brother out of money. If Van thinks for a second that Chuck's going to think twice about fucking him, he's blind. Good luck to him.

Tiffany Mynx

A bit of a spoiled brat. I still kind of like both of them. I know we went through all this crap, back and forth on the net and the lawsuit and all. I still like these people, they're just stupid. They tried to take a stance and they ended up walking away with less than had they not been adversarial. We were never out to fuck them. They were going to be treated right. I wish they had calmed down, allowed Rob to calm down and allowed the thing to be worked out like grown ups. It ended up childish, very childish.

Max Hardcore

I love Max. He is like a Ron Jeremy. You can' t take him too seriously. He's a funny guy in a cowboy hat. Would I want a girl I like to work for him? Probably not, but at the same time I get a guilty pleasure out of watching him. I have a membership to his site, it's fucking great.

Rob Black

My best friend. One of the few people I have found in this industry that I can honestly respect. No matter what you read or hear, deep down, he is a decent guy. A lot of his bravado has to be taken with a grain of salt. He is a showman, but deep down he is a decent fucking guy.

Tom Byron

A guy who needs to lose about twenty pounds. A guy who needs to stop smoking and a guy who is looking forward to the future. The future looks great and I'm glad to get all this bull shit out. Whatever comes out of this office, we are in this business to make good movies and make money.

(NOTE: Since this interview, Tom has lost five pounds and has quit smoking.)

That's it, thanks so much.

Thanks Rog and thanks to everyone for reading this.