Patrick Collins Interview - Patrick Collins Movies
April 2000

You were telling me before we turned the tape on that you were a fan when you got into the business. What about life before porn, what was your background?

Mostly sales. I sold everything, cars, washers and dryers, you name it.

And you were a big fan of porn?

Absolutely. I was a fan of porn since I was a kid. I watched it on eight millimeter and I used to go into the city to watch it. Once, in the early seventies, I went to Mitchell Brothers. I figured I wanted to be an actor in the business. They took a couple of Polaroid's of me, but they never called me back.  (He laughs.) What the hell, I tried.

So you were a salesman and porn fan, how did you make the jump into the business?

My wife at the time, the former Tianna, was an exhibitionist. We had a girlfriend, Raven Richards, who was in the business. Tianna asked her if she thought she had the right make up for this business. Raven said "I've never met anyone in my life who is more perfect for this than you." I took a leave of absence to see what was going on.  Obviously, I was really curious, and I also wanted to make sure she was safe and didn't get taken advantage of.  Through that, I met John Stagliano. That was in January of 1989.  By July or August of that year, I was working for John selling his tapes.

At the time you got in, was there anyone you were particularly fond of?

At that time? I would say Lois Ayers, Sharon Mitchell, Seka, Georgian Spelvin, Gloria Leonard, you know. These were the ones who were the very best at that time. There were quite a few actually.

You went to work for John as a salesman. Did you know from the start that you wanted to direct your own movies?

Not at all. I had no desire whatsoever. The opportunity kind of presented itself. For a period of time, I was just on a lot of sets. I saw things that I didn't like and couldn't imagine why people would do things the way they were doing them.

Like what?

I have a famous story about Bruce Seven that I tell. One time, when I was just producing for Elegant Angel, he was directing. He wanted the set up for the scene to be that these two girls come to the house selling dildos. I said "Bruce, there's no fucking way. I ain't doing it.  It's bullshit. I can't even possibly stretch that." For me, I want to believe that there is a possibility something could happen. It was things like that, seeing things I didn't like and things I did like.  Then I decided that it really was about presentation. Sales is all about presentation. If the product is presented in such a way that the customer sees better aspects of  the product, then they buy the product.

How long was it before you actually got behind the camera and made a movie?

I think it was 1991 or 92, I can't remember exactly. I went to Budapest because I didn't want anyone to say that Bruce or John helped me. I wanted to be as far away from them as possible. The truth of the matter is, John is not the kind of personality who has the knack for explaining things. Bruce was really short about things, so it was kind of a sink or swim sort of thing. I met these magazine folks over there and they said they would try and find me some girls. There were no agencies there back then and it was a very stressful trip, but I shot three movies.

Which three?

"Buttwoman in Budapest", "Tianna's Hungarian Connection" and "Depravity on the Danube" which was a good little movie, but it didn't sell very well. People hated that title. They would call up and ask "what's Dan-oobey?"

How long after that, did the Sodomania series come about?

Very quickly. Mike Cates and I got together on that. He was editing and doing camera for me. We were talking about what it was that we liked about porn. I had just been watching some loops and there would be three or four little vignettes on a tape.  We agreed that this stuff was great because it gave different little fantasies to work with. In a magazine, I saw the name 'Sodomaniaque' in a French magazine and that's how I came up with the title.  Mike has really been an integral part of everything that I have done. He is my friend, but he is also a very talented guy, extremely creative and hard working. He is always in the background, but I can't say enough about how much he contributes to what I do.  His idea was to introduce it like "Tales from the Crypt" and that was how we came up with it. The rest, as they say, is history.

Have you directed all of the Sodomania movies?

I have directed all but one.  In Sodomania 22, I said it was the other guys, but I have done all the rest.  There have been some vignettes in the movies that were directed by someone else.  I have used it to launch other lines many times.  Parker Schurman shot in Sodomania 5 and I mentioned that in the tape. He won awards for those scenes. I did the same thing with 'Cumback Pussy' and 'Tales of Perversity' and 'S.M.U.T.' I already have enough people who watch my videos and I think, respect my opinion, so I can give people a chance to see if they like something new.  I did it with 'Sugar Walls' as well.

Is that the only series you are still actively directing?

No, I just finished "Bottom Dweller 6". It's got fifteen girls in it and I think it's hysterically funny. You always have to be careful with humor and sex, but I really like humor. I finished 'Buttwoman' recently. I wanted to clear something up. People make an assumption that 'Sodomania' is about anal sex. I used to have Webster's definition on my tapes and I'm going to start doing that again. It means any unnatural sex act, basically anything other than the missionary position. Similarly, Buttwoman is not about anal sex. It's about a woman who has a fetish for women's or men's butts. It was never shot with the intention of people thinking it was anal. It has had anal in it, but that's not the focus. I just wanted to clear that up. What was your question before that?

We were talking about what other series you have going.

I have a new Slutwoman movie coming out. Alexandra Quinn has the lead in that. She's great, what a nasty girl. I also just signed a new contract girl, Tiffany Mason, the other day. She's six feet tall, six-four in heels and she is a doll. I'm going to do some kind of special project, but I don't know what yet. For our web site, we have this section called the 'Snatch Hatch.' Girls always come in and if I interview them, I try to get them turned on. I love that, so I decided to shoot it and it turned out really good. I had these other two guys shoot it, but the webmaster said that it just didn’t have the same level of depravity, so I decided I would start doing that again. I am also playing around with film a little bit, just to learn what I can get with it. Three of the projects that are coming out have some eight millimeter stuff in them and I'm messing around with some sixteen millimeter as well.

Where has Mr. Fazano been?

Mrs. Collins took issue with Mr. Fazano, so he has been out of the loop for a while. Mrs. Collins is getting ready to give birth to twins any day now and I think that may be part of it. It's interesting for me, from a self disciplinary standpoint to say no to these things. I am a real emotional person. If I think it's good, do it, now! That's not to say that he won't be back.

So, he's just sort of hiatus.

Yeah, he's taking a break.

How did that character come about?

It's a really interesting story. You remember Sierra? Well, I wanted to fuck her. A lot of guys in this business will just say to a girl 'you want to work for me, you have to fuck me.' I couldn't do that so what I did was come up with the idea to shoot her. I did it in like 92 or 93 and had this little scenario all done, but then didn't release it. Then a couple of years later, when Sodomania 7 came out, Mike told me he was a little short on material. He suggested we just add this scene. I was unsure, so I took it over to Bruce. He was my mentor, I had so much respect for Bruce. He always knew what was good and what wasn't. He looked at it and said 'it's a pretty good little scene.' From him, that was a huge compliment. So, I stuck it in there and people went crazy. They loved that POV thing and wanted more of it. When 'Fazano's Student Bodies' came out, it had thirteen scenes in it. I'm not a kid and I'm telling you, it was a big fucking job. It took all the fun out of it at the end. I had to hold the camera, fuck the girls and think about when do I want to see her face, then get a hard-on on top of all that. I did it as a pleasurable thing, but it was a lot of work, though people really liked it.

What's the story behind the split between Elegant Angel, John and Bruce?

The way it started was Bruce was directing for John and I. We owned Elegant Angel. It was all-girl movies with Bruce directing for us. Then John helped Bruce start his company. There was never any split with Bruce like that. He just decided that he wanted to have his own offices. Bruce was a great guy. He didn't always listen to good advice and he let people take advantage of him. He was a hard headed son of a bitch, but he didn't give a fuck. Bruce was a great director and a lousy business man. It was not a good move for him to leave John. John is a good businessman and has a very anal way of doing things that benefits people who are not so attentive to those things. So, Bruce stayed in the same complex, but got his own offices.

Why did you leave?

I left basically because I didn't feel that I was being treated fairly. We had made a lot of adjustments to my income throughout the years which were always in the favor of John. It wasn't even really about that. I just felt that maybe I was in someone's shadow. I wanted to see if I could do this on my own, it's a big commitment and a lot of work. I think that unintentionally, through John's attitude towards me at a particular time, where I said I wasn't going to take it any more. Then one time, he said something like 'you can't make it without me.' Like I said, I'm an emotional guy and I just wasn't going to spend the rest of my life wondering. That was it.

Looking around this big office, with this shelf full of awards, with you as the head of one of the biggest companies in porn, can you say that at that time, you ever could have imagined, you would be here right now?

No, but I'll tell you why I think it happened. It's the secret of my success and it's very simple. Most people get into this business to make money. I got in to get laid. I got in this business as a consumer, so when I watched porn, I knew what I wanted to see. I concentrated on the little things and doing the best that I could do and learning by my mistakes, trying not to make them again and always giving the customer more than they really expected. What ended up happening, and this was not my intention, but people began to buy Elegant Angel. It became a consumer driven company and has not succeeded because of the distributors. You know, the distributors don't like doing business with me, or with John because they are paying too much for product. They can buy other people's product for two dollars and load it into stores that need to fill shelves. Why would they want to pay fifteen dollars and twenty five cents to me? Why? Because the store says 'I have to have Elegant Angel. I have to have this particular product. I have to have this Evil Angel title.' In the beginning, I had a pricing structure with a minimum number of pieces you had to buy to get those prices. What ended up happening is that it forced them to buy a certain number of pieces and they hated that. Since the stores demanded it, they had to do it, but they would buy only the titles that they needed and could unload as quickly as possible. They could mix in with other pieces to cost average it. If they could get some VCA catalog and some Pleasure stuff and then some Elegant Angel and Evil Angel stuff, they could sell it all for sixteen a piece and make money off the whole deal. They never stocked our stuff, so it developed an adversarial relationship between Elegant or Evil Angel and the distributor. This wasn't really the intention. The intention was just to do the very best we could and not cut corners. As a result you get this consumer driven demand. If you want to keep doing it, you have to have the money. I don't know how people stay in this business doing productions like they do.

You mentioned Mike Cates earlier. You guys have worked together for a long time and he seems very happy with a background role. In an ego driven business, there aren't a lot of people who will do that. What do you think makes the two of you work so well together?

It goes back to something Bruce said to me years ago when he was trying to get me to hire Mike full time. He said 'Mike wants to make a good living, but he doesn't want to be responsible for running a business.' I think that is a part of it. Our personalities mesh, that's a part of it. I pay Mike a lot of money, a lot more money than most directors in the business get. I think he likes me, we get along and he does get a lot of credit whenever I get interviewed. We've never talked about it, but there are so many people in this business who not only don't credit people, but who are happy to take credit for things they didn't do. I'll give you and example. There was a movie, without naming names, that was released by this company, and won best movie. But it wasn't directed by the director. It was directed by the cameraman, and I didn't know this at the time, but how easy it was for the director to take all the credit for something he didn't do. I think it speaks volumes about that person and the society we live in. On the other hand, Mike is so confident in his abilities. He knows what he contributes and doesn't have to latch on to something he didn't do. He doesn't need to hear what he did all the time, because he knows what he did. This is rare with the blustering loudmouths we have in this business today.

I did some checking before this interview. In over nine hundred reviews, I have mentioned two cameramen by name, Michael Cates and Barry Wood.

Guess who taught Barry Wood? Michael Cates. We knew Barry before he ever picked up a camera. He was married to Trinity Loren and Mike showed him how to shoot.

1997 was a really big year for Elegant Angel. You swept just about every award possible. What do you think made that year special?

I'm not really known for being politically correct, so why start now? I think part of it had to do with critics wanting Elegant Angel's newer venture to be successful. It ensures the flow of advertising dollars. I think that the publicness of the individuals at Elegant Angel at the time contributed. In Tom Byron's case, the quality of the work contributed. Tommy had, and still does as far as I know, a real knack for shooting. I have always said that any idiot can make a porno movie, but it takes a real pervert to make a good one and Tommy's a pervert. His stuff in the beginning was not as good as it was later on, but no one's is. Some of his stuff, I actually didn't release early on. There were a lot of factors that year. In a way, the same reason I let Rob Black work for me, was the same reason people liked Rob's work. The reason I let him work for me wasn't because I liked his stuff. It was because I had heard that Russ Hampshire at VCA wasn't going to let him shoot. He was too controversial. I was really, and still am, for free expression. I think that Rob's public persona challenged the status quo and got him a lot of attention. I know what I'm doing and when I do something, I do it for a specific reason. My misreading of that whole situation was that if you pay someone fairly, which is not compared to what the industry pays, but what I think is fair, they get to a point where they feel that they are the reason for your success. They start believing their own press. What made that work that year? If you look at the very same individuals now, and the quality of the work that they put out, where their lives are, you will find that it's very different than it was with me. The reason is because I crossed the T's and dotted the I's and I make everyone who works for me do the same thing.

 Shortly after the success at the CES show, everything sort of came apart. The split was loud and  ugly. What happened? All at once, you lost a hand full of award winning directors.

These award winning directors, by the way, did not win nearly as many awards as I had won cumulatively prior to that, making a lot less movies. I only made one movie a month for about six years. This is going to be a long answer, but the bottom line is that they started to believe their own press. Rob has a much higher impression of himself than anyone else. He's a good bull shitter and a bright guy. I've never debated with anyone the level of his intellect. It's unfortunately combined with a real sense of self destructiveness. What he did was take advantage of the lack of self esteem of
these other guys and girl. He knew he couldn't go out and make a company with just Rob Black movies, it's a very limited market. I can show you the numbers. He was one of the worst selling directors I ever had. He had to have Tom. Van was Tommy's cameraman and Van and Tommy are the kind of people you say "Hey man, that's blue. Everyone else says it's white, but it's really blue. And it's blue because you made it blue." "Yeah man, you're right, it is blue. I really am the greatest." They are very easily manipulated, so Rob took advantage of that. When he got what he wanted, you can see what happened. The only thing that Van had was new girls in San Diego. What I told him was 'If you don't get what you had when I first hired you in San Diego, we have lost the edge.' I told Rob the same thing. You can't shock people any more. This is about eroticism. Anybody can puke on the fucking floor and people will talk about it. Who gives a fuck? I told Tommy the same thing. You can not continue to do this the way you've been doing it because what happens is, people copy you. Somebody's going to get it right. Where we sit, they are going to sell the product for less money and that gives the customer an alternative. The customer in this case being the retailer. The retailer is going to say fuck this, this shit looks just as good as Elegant Angel stuff, AND it's less money. I've gone through the same thing with Sodomania. People judge you on what other directors do. You have to continually improve. You have to push all the time, technically and creatively. Tommy's work ethic is nothing. He's not used to working and doesn't like to work. The reason that he's good at what he does is because he likes to fuck. He can get fucked doing this, so this is good for him. Van is a good cameraman and that's it. He's a good cameraman who had something when I first found him, which was new girls in San Diego. If you'll notice, I didn't start releasing Filthy First Timers again until about six months ago, so it was a long time in between. Guess why? Because I didn't have filthy first timers. I could have done what most people in this business do, just call something filthy first timers. People will buy the name. How many Bottom Dwellers have I come out with? How many Buttwoman? It's these things that instill the confidence in the consumer. It's not trying to fuck the consumer. It's the same thing now on the internet.

What about the internet, and the people out here in cyberspace?

I have to say something about the internet and you're really involved in this. There are more spineless, punk mother-fuckers on the internet than I have ever seen in my life. These mother fuckers, and you tell them this, have no spine. They run their fucking mouths. They are the same mother fuckers who used to eat sand on the beach and cower in school. They never had a date with a girl. They talk all this bad shit over the internet, but will they walk in and say to me what they say there. No way. They never had a fucking voice and now they are so fucking angry. It's amazing. It's like this whole fucking sub-culture developed as soon as the anonymity of the internet came into play. Tell them I think that most of them are a bunch of fucking punks. I'm sitting here. They know where I'm at. My fucking address is on the front. If they want to slap me around, they can come here and do it any fucking time they want, or at least try.

I'll carry the message.

I just had to get that off my chest. It's amazing when you go out there. People spout whatever, this girl has AIDS or whatever as if they're an authority. Then they continually talk about this as if the human being behind it is nothing. These fucking people are so unhappy with their lives. I can't
believe it. They sit there at a fucking keyboard all the time and they talk this little fucking bitch shit. I mean, what the fuck is going on in the world? How many times do you read anywhere on the net that so-and-so is a good person, or did a good thing? Never! It's always this whiny bitch shit.
Am I the only one that fucking sees this? One of these days, I'll make a fucking movie about them. You can tell these people that if they will just be themselves, I'll put them in a movie. I will take applications and put them in a movie. That's what I'm good at, letting people be themselves. Just
show them all hunched over a keyboard, trying to teach people a lesson by talking about a girl as if she's some pig. Some of the things they call these girls, Jeez.  Anyway, that's my take on that.

Great, now that you've just destroyed my whole existence.

Oh no. You, on the other hand, are someone who at least has some fucking balls. I mean it. There was one thing I remember reading which was pretty funny. It was right after the three Stooges left and some guy wrote something like 'Rog, you're reviews of these movies are bull shit.' Your response was honest and classic. It was something like 'Did I fluff it up a little bit? Yeah, I'm guilty of that if I want to score points.' That's what separates you from the rest. You know the difference between the game and
the reality. These other people are stuck in what they think is reality, but it's nothing. It's this fucking bizarre world. I don't even know what their lives consist of. It's just really fucking scary.

Well, they've got me pegged as being on your payroll you know?

What?

I get paid by you for good reviews according to some.

Yeah right.

So where's my check?

That doesn't surprise me at all. That's the kind of shit these people just love to spend their time doing, 'let's play make-believe.' You want to hear something really funny? My internet content director's wife is setting up links for our site. I see this letter she wrote to Luke Ford. She said somewhere in the letter 'you and Elegant Angel are some of the biggest names' or something like that. I told her, I don't want nothing to do with this guy. Don't put a fucking link. Don't tell him shit. He's another example of the culture of the internet world that I find so revolting. This is a guy who said about a girl who worked for me, because some fucking punk dance agent in Florida said it to him, which had no validity at all, that she had AIDS. He used her real name. I wrote him privately, why would you do something like this? Even if you know it was true? Why? He never wrote back. That's the issue I have with this culture. I think it spreads out beyond the cyber world as well, it's a lack of responsibility that people are willing to take for their own actions. It's always someone else's fault. 'I killed the mother fucker, but it's his fault for looking at me stupid.' This is what I see in the cyber world. Luke says, it's all bullshit, but he'll print it anyway. That doesn't justify doing it. I would hope that people like you will have the balls to not cave in to what they believe the consensus is out there and become leaders and make people take responsibility. When you gave 'The Fist' a zero, that took balls in my book. You knew you were going to sit down with me when you wrote that. It's almost like you were saying, 'I know how important this movie is, fuck em. I'm going to give it a zero.'

Is that what I was doing?

I always have to think before act, that's always been my problem. Like with Playboy a few minutes ago. Fuck Playboy. They want to do business with punks, I don't. Don't tell me I have to deal with some mother fucker I don't trust. Let them put someone else's movies on. They always have shitty movies on there anyway. So, sometimes my volatility works in my favor. Other times, I need to think first. My reasons for doing the Fist were pretty well laid out in the letter I wrote you. It was all about making the girls cum. Sure, there was a part of me that said 'fuck you, you can't tell me what I can't
do.' Most of it, though, was that the girls wanted to do! That turns me on. It doesn't take much to push the envelope. You can subject a girl to eating shit out of someone's ass. Anyone can do this. You can find a girl who will do this, but that's not what I'm about. I'm coming out with a series called
'Real Female Orgasms' and I don't have any fucking competition. The reason for that is that most pornographers don't give a fuck if the girl ever cums. Their footage is full of faked shit, and I detest that. The first time I pissed on a girl was twenty five years ago or so. I had been fucking this girl. There was a bathroom with a tub in it. She calls me into the bathroom. She's in the tub jerking off and she whispers "I want you to piss on me." My dick just want BOOM. It was hard for me to piss, but I did it. What turned me on was that it turned her on. So back to the review of the Fist, that's what I got out of it. Writing to you clarified for me, what it was really all about. It made me think about why I did what I did. I was sick and tired of blurring out that shit. We just shot a scene yesterday, where this girl got a foot up her pussy to the ankle because it was turning her on. The fucking director is asking me if he can put it in the movie. I had to tell him no. You can't put it in the fucking movie because I can't afford it. I sold a thousand pieces of this fucking movie (The Fist). I am taking a huge risk. Believe me, if I get busted, it's a million easy. If I never go to jail, it's a million dollars in legal fees. I knew that going in. Am I willing to do it again? Hell no. Let somebody else take a fucking risk.

One final thing on the big split. Given your feelings about why they left Elegant, were you at all surprised to see Tiffany and Van no longer with Extreme?

Come on Rog. Come on. Believe me, Tommy is in the same fucking place. He IS Rob's bitch and he will continue to be Rob's bitch until Rob's done with him or he fucking wakes up. If it wasn't for Tommy, Rob wouldn't have a fucking company. Let me tell you how good Rob is. Tommy is Rob's bitch, Rob directs Tommy and his whole life. Rob puts an ad in AVN dressed like a girl with Tommy in the add saying he's Tommy's bitch. See how easy it is to play Tommy? It's how Rob works.

If you look around porn, Elegant Angel would seem to be a training ground for young directors who go on to work for other companies. Rob, Tom, Van, David Stanley, Nicky. What do you think you do that helps cultivate some of these guys, maybe help bring them up a notch?

Again, it's about the little things. I give these people a platform. I give them a level of distribution that is two to five times what they would get anywhere else. So, many more people are exposed to their product. I think the failing in this, is that I promoted the people and not their product.
Now I promote the products more than the people because I got burned before. I think Nicky Starks is a good example. The biggest mistake he made, was leaving here. The biggest mistake Rob and Tommy and Van made was leaving here. They, thank God, left. This cost me a fortune. I borrowed money on my credit cards to pay these guys. That's how much I was paying them towards
the end. I would have kept my word, no matter what, but they left. I encourage individualism, I applaud creativity, uniqueness and hard work. I am a good example of these things. I do these things myself. I used to watch everything before it was released. It's gotten to the point where I can't do
that anymore, but I can tell you that every movie Rob released was changed by me, to some degree before release. What I tell them is 'shoot what makes your dick hard.' It's that simple. If it works for you, you'll do fine. If it doesn't work for you, if you're trying to do something you think a critic will like, then you're fucked.
Critics change, they don't even know what they like half the time.

What about contract girls? You have had some short term relationships with contract girls, but not the long runs like some of the other companies. What do you think is the importance of contract girls? Or do you think that for what you do, they just aren't that relevant?

Good question. It's not important to me for the movies alone. It doesn't' really work for gonzo. It is important to me on the level of representation to the fans and to the retailers. So, if I have a responsible girl who answers her fan mail and is on time for her appointments, it can be very
good in customer relations, but I can't possibly justify it any other way.

It worked out well with Stephanie Swift.

Oh yeah. Stephanie is a very special girl. She would have done just fine without Elegant Angel. There are some people who just have a real level of intellect and talent and creativity and special ness about them that they can make it washing dishes, they are just going to make. There are other people who need some help.

I believe you already covered this, but let's make sure. As I understand it, your philosophy on what makes good porn is to shoot what makes your dick hard?

That's it exactly.

Based on that philosophy, how important would it be to put personal taste aside if the audience gave you an overwhelming reaction that they want this or they don't want that?

I would never do it because I just wouldn't know how. I know what I want and I know what I don't want. I'll give you an example, but I won't give any names because it just wouldn't be fair to the girl. This 'Snatch Hatch' thing that I shoot for the web, I shot a girl recently. I didn't do the initial interview with her, someone else did. When she came in, she just didn't turn me on, at all. So, I was trying to do something that is not what I feel. I'm not good at that. I just basically told her to masturbate. It wasn't any good and I'll never release it. I have a lot of shit that I'll never release. It wouldn't be any fun to make a movie that didn't ring true to me. Most people who watch pornography, they don't know why they like it. I don't mean that as an insult. I mean it as a consumer. I understand that. If  it wasn't for me making movies, I would be the same way. Laura Dern one time, in a movie, reached under the covers and jerking this kid off. You never saw anything, but that was fucking hot to me. I even shot soft core and put it in a movie to prove that point. I put on the box that there was a soft core scene, but still some critics whined about it. No fucking shit it's soft core, that's why I put it on the box. I did it to prove that it isn't really about penetration, it's about the truth. It's about whether or not the girl really gets off, whether or not the tears in her eyes are real or not. I was validated in that some reviewer in a magazine did two pages. And basically what he said in the end was the he didn't even know it was a soft core scene until after it was done. He didn't even realize there was no penetration. That's what I mean. If I go by what the fans think they want then it's going to change as they become bored with whatever today's special is. So, when I do anal with a girl it's because the girl wants to do anal and it makes her pussy wet and she cums. I can never miss with that, but if I tried to do anal just because everyone is doing anal, that doesn't work for Patrick Collins, it doesn't work for Elegant Angel.

Elegant Angel was the first company to use quotes from internet review sites in their advertising. Do you think that these sites, not controlled by advertising dollars, offer the consumer a more honest view of product?

I think that sites like this are the future. People want their information now. They don't want to wait for a magazine to come out. I think that the same pitfalls that people point out in the print media are going to rear their ugly heads in this medium. You have to make money. If your income is dependant upon Patrick Collins, but your reputation is built on integrity, as yours is, you can, with integrity, review a movie that Patrick Collins did, but it won't be the same review as if Patrick Collins wasn't paying you. Yet, in your heart, it will be your honest opinion. I think that it's out there. How can you avoid that? I used to have a lot of respect for Hustler, but once they got in bed with Vivid, all those fucking movies started getting the Fully Erect. It was hard to get a fucking Fully Erect from them at one time. Now, I haven't seen some of these movies, maybe they really deserve it, but jeez. I got seven of them in a row and I was so proud, because getting a hundred percent from Screw and a Fully Erect from Hustler were really what I would strive for. So, in reference to what you were asking, I like the immediacy of the review sites, I am suspect of the movies of some reviewers. You and CAVR have your own thing that you do and I don't question your integrity, but there are some people out there who write reviews that just write stuff and I wonder if it's some other company that writes the reviews. They stand out. There will be a company that really isn't known for doing good stuff, but the review makes it sound like the greatest movie ever. You are going to have the same conflicts eventually that hurt the print media, but for right now, I think there is a genuine honesty that is missing from print.

You talked a little bit about what a risk it was to do "The Fist" and you covered why you did it. With that in mind, did you follow the Anabolic "Rough Sex" situation at all?

I hated that shit.  I'll tell you what happened. I had a girl come in here, Regan Starr, and I asked her about it. I had heard about Aspen crying or something and I thought it was pretty fucked up. So Regan and I started talking. She said that they beat the shit out of her. That she asked them to
stop, but they wouldn't stop. I go 'Well fuck them.' I told Chris "Kahn Tusion is a fucking punk." This ain't about fucking sex, it's about hurting girls and lying to them. As far as I'm concerned, Anabolic has zero integrity with me. These fucking guys are misogynists. They will
do anything to a girl that makes them money, no matter what happens to the girl. Then they sugar coat it with that bull shit about consentuality.  Both of them have daughters, I'd like to see them do that to their fucking daughters or their wives. Or to somebody I fucking know. These guys are spineless, no fucking spine at all. Anybody who likes to beat the shit out of women and do things when a woman tells you no, and then say it's OK because it's REAL? Well, I'll show you a fucking real forty five up to your fucking head and we'll see you shit your pants when I cock that mother fucker. That's real too. Fucking punks. Another example of people who believe their own press. Anabolic got successful with a unique product for that time in the industry, and they got some help. Ask Chris if Patrick Collins didn't share all that I knew about the business and I thought it should be approached if you had a good product. They hate women, that's my opinion. I don't really know Greg that well. I think Greg is just like fucking soy. You put him next to steak, he'll taste like steak, you put him next to a hot dog, he'll taste like a hot dog.

How do you think that differs from the charges of misogyny leveled at Elegant Angel over the years? Particularly in Rob's movies.

You don't see Rob here, do you? This, as I said before, was a period of time when I had Greg Alves running this thing. Between him, Rob and the rest of them, I damn near ended up out of business. I can tell you this, that spitting in Stephanie Swift's face, you will never find that in my videos now. I wasn't even aware it was there. Guess where I saw it? I saw it on my site. When I saw it, it was gone. So, the accusations in that case, were well founded, and they have been taken care of. You never saw that before and you won't see it from my company again. There was an example of my stupidity. When you try and get out of doing your own work, you get burned.

When Marc Wallice tested positive for the HIV virus, he was working for Elegant Angel. When did you find out?

I was in Budapest. I heard the stories. I started putting the pieces of information together and in my heart I believe he knew. I believe that he was helpless to tell the truth because he was so afraid of what he would lose. He just never made the connection between the horrific potential consequences of what he was doing. He's another good example of people who aren't willing to accept responsiblity for their actions.

Do you think he performed after he knew he was positive?

I think so. It's pure speculation on my part, but I think so. Let me tell you, I like Marc. I have absolutely no respect for his actions, but I like him. I understand where a lot of this comes from. When I was a dope addict, I would take you for every mother fucking thing you have. If Marc was
dealing with those issues at the time, I can understand.

Was he fired?

Let's just say he was fired. There is no way I could have let him keep working for us in any capacity.

Sean Michaels was also a contract director for Elegant for a while. That would seem to be a really good fit, but it didn't last very long. Why?

There are several factors involved there. One of them is that the market is changing. I used to sell between five and six thousand of a new release for fifteen dollars and twenty five cents a piece. Now I sell four thousand. I can's afford to pay these people the kind of money that I was paying them to
have them direct for me, and to do the amount of work that is required of me if I have someone in that position. I'm responsible for everything. I'm amazed that Blowjob Adventures ever sold anything. It's a fucked up mother fucking series, but I'll tell you what, it's better than anybody's else shit now. I'll tell you why, because I started watching it. I was amazed that some of these mother fuckers couldn't even shoot a blowjob. I mean how fucking lame can you get? They gave it best blowjob series? How fucked up is that? If you watch number twenty two on and you will see how good it can get. I just watched twenty two and my fucking dick was hard the whole time. It's only going to get better.

Any thoughts or comments on the current HIV situation in the business?

Not really.

Elegant is a condom optional company correct?

Yes. If people want to use them, I don't care.

Have you found that it hurts sales at all?

Nah, not a bit.

There is a lot of talk that it kills sales?

That's bull shit. These are people who are always looking for an excuse as to why they aren't selling more product. Instead of bitching, they ought to hire people to shoot who actually like sex. It's real fucking simple. You know how these people think? If I made a box cover with three girls standing
on their heads, in two months, every fucker out there would do it too. They think that that's why we sell the numbers that we do. Of course these people keep putting a lot of money in my pockets because they aren't really competition. There are only a handful of people out there who are making decent product.

Are there any themes or types of you movies that you won't go near?

Yes. I think that the objective has to be eroticism. I don't find girls crying because they are in pain erotic. I don't find religion and sex together erotic. I think that the source of these things is the individual director's issues with either women or religion and that in their efforts to deal with their own demons, they are shooting what they are most afraid of. I don't have those conflicts or issues to the degree that other people seem to have.

Fans are always asking what ever happened to Tianna. Do you have any insight to offer them?

Tianna just got her last check in February. She has been married for a few years and as far as I know, lives in Australia. I haven't heard from her in quite a long time.

So we won't see her back in the business any time soon.

I don't think so.

Do you have time to watch other people's product?

Not very often, except when I'm at a peep show. There aren't many of them around here, so I have to be out of town. A few months ago, I was in Denver and I got to look at some stuff. It's really hard for me. I have people, every other day, sending me tapes who want to shoot for Elegant Angel. I just don't have time to watch them all. I have Dion look at some, or Mike Cates. I just got three movies from Germany by Dru Barrymore. She did some movies and wants me to distribute them here. If she has control of the movies, and it's not your typical German production which are as emotionally
revealing as dirt, then they may be really good.

So you couldn't comment on who is making good product outside of your company?

I can tell you based on experience and I do read reviews. I can tell when a reviewer has watched a movie and when he hasn't. I get a good idea of the product that way.

OK, so who would say is making good product?

John Leslie. For the same reasons I keep saying, John is a pervert. He loves doing this. He's also an artist. He paints, he's a gourmet cook, he's a musician. He's an extremely talented guy and he cares about what he does. Rocco, because Rocco loves fucking and loves pussy. He will never change.
People don't understand Rocco. He's like a big kid, this is what he's always wanted to do. You can take Rocco and put him with the deadest fucking girl in the world and still get a great scene. Who else? Are you familiar with the 'Excuse Me' series?

No.

It's out of the Netherlands. He's a German guy, I think it's Harry Morgan, but I'm not sure. It's great. They guy walks around with a Beta cam and picks up girls on the street. You never know what's going to happen.

You are suddenly crowned King of Porn, with unlimited power, what's the first thing you do?

What a question. I don't want to be King. I have enough trouble doing what I have to fucking do. I don't want the responsibility of fixing all this shit.

Do you find it interesting that the Elegant Angel black lines, some of the most popular black lines on the market, are directed by white directors?

Again, if it makes your dick hard, you are going to do a good job with it. If you combine that with the level of distribution that I have, so that you have more people in the beginning who get the chance to see it. These are people who have seen other stuff by the competition that they thought was OK, then they see our stuff and think it's really great. You have that much more demand for the product and it just gets back to shoot with your dick.

Does interracial sex in your movies hurt sales in any way?

Never hurt them for me. Look at Sean Michaels. He's great. He's a good looking guy and a nice guy.

Are there any women in the business that you would like…

To fuck?

Well, to fuck or maybe to steal away to put on a box cover?

Box covers don't change my sales at all. If I put Janine on my box cover and said she was doing anal, then for sure, that would make a difference. If I were to just put another star on my box, it won't make a difference. These distributors buy what they have to buy of my stuff, not because they want to buy  it. The only other time I would say that would be effected is like when Dion shot this girl Holly and then the E Channel or someone did a thing on her for TV. There was some re-orders for that because people were curious after having seen it on TV. Are there girls I would like to test their potential sexually? Yeah. I don't even know who Vivid has over there now, but usually they have such great looking girls, I would love to see what I could do with them. You know Janine wanted to work for me years ago, but her boyfriend didn't want her working for me. I wanted to put her through her paces.

You talked a little about the web site, what is in store for ElegantAngel.com?

What I'm trying to do with the web site is trying to give the people a safe zone. You get out there on the internet and ninety percent of the places you go are trying to rip you off. We haven't advertised our site anywhere but on the boxes and on the tapes so we only get about five hundred people a day. Sixty percent of them rolled over into a month membership last month and that's pretty good. We don't even have streaming video yet, but that will start going up this month. I think that the people visiting the site feel that it has value. I want it to be the best site on the net. That is the objective. I've been ripped off big time before, but now I've got the whole thing in house. I have fifteen people who are working on this constantly. It's costing a huge amount of money, but I want to give people the very best. For me, obsession with anything completely unfulfilling, sex, drugs or food, if you're obsessed with something, it's never going to satisfy you. I am trying to give people an alternative, even on my site. There is a web site I have linked that has good news posted on a local, regional and global level. You can go in there and read about the good things that people do and I love that shit. So I want to give people the option to check out that sort of thing. I want to give people the option to read certain books that maybe have nothing to do with sex. I am reading a book now "The Wisdom of our Fathers" which is a great book. I'm also reading that new Tom Brokaw book. For me, I have to have a more rounded life than just sex. It can't just be all about sex. It's about what can I contribute. The paradox of life seems to be, what I give is what becomes most valuable to me. What can I contribute? So, what I contribute is my own honesty. I try to be responsible and act responsibly. When I'm wrong, I try and admit it. I want the web experience to be about more than sex. I want it to be about responsibility, contribution, change and insight.

If you could pick one movie that you have directed and say I am most proud of this one, what would it be?

"Theory of Relativity"

Why?

Because eighty percent of the eroticism in that movie comes from the performances and the dialog. To get those kinds of performances from people who aren't really known for their acting is something that I am proud of. And again, I had help. Not only did I have Cates, but I had Joey Silvera who is a really good actor. We had good fortune on that movie. Sometimes it just works that way, you get everyone that you wanted, and everyone is in a good mood and the majority of the girls are not the rag, it just all comes together. As far as scenes, I would have say the one with Randy Spears and his wife where they fucked the rubber thing. That is hysterical. I really like that. Again, you have Randy Spears, who can really act.

OK, you've covered a lot these people, but I a list of names I'd like to run by you and have you just give me your first impression of them.

Shoot.

Bruce Seven

One of a Kind

John Stagliano

One of a kind.

Max Hardcore.

(Patrick takes a long pause, choosing his words carefully.) A boil on the ass of pornography.

Care to elaborate?

I think he's a fucking misogynist and punk. His whole thing is about abusing women. I think his big market are these web guys.

Unhappy, misogynist pedophiles?

Exactly. That's exactly his market. You nailed it.

Paul Thomas

Extremely talented, completely insane.

Rob Black

A good salesman.

Tom Byron

Rob's bitch, a pervert.

Vivid Video

The Wal-Mart of pornography

VCA

Integrity

Anabolic

Misogynists

Evil Angel

Quality

John Leslie

An Artist. There are so many words that could describe him.

Extreme Associates

A good example of what not to do.

Van Damage

A good example of what not to do.

Tiffany Mynx

An extremely sexy, easily led...casualty.

Patrick Collins.

An evolution.

Did I fail to cover anything?

(He laughs) I don't think so. Boy, you better cut that mother fucker short.

Well, thank you Patrick.

No problem.